"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsmtsm@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:f1d0ca54-4af8-49b4-9f8e-9155025c6203@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>A reminder: These threads think I'm melodramatic?
Cordy: Gasp! No! We mustn't.
Wes: Kiss me.
Cordy: Bite me!
> ANGEL
> Season Three, Episode 5: "Fredless"
> An early favorite of mine last time, and not just because of one of
> the best comedy-with-a-point teasers of the series (I was commenting
> in my S2 and 3 reviews that ATS tends to have strong teasers, for
> whatever reason).
I've been noticing that on rewatch too. I don't recall how well they keep
it up, but it's sure an attribute of the series up to here. Sometimes
almost episode saving. Like -er- this episode.
> The character of Fred has always been of interest
> to many viewers, but this is an episode specifically centered around
> getting to know how her mind works. Getting a chance to understand
> what she's running from, and the story she's always drawing, and the
> way Pylea changed her are small-scale versions of those things that
> caught me by surprise while retrospectively seeming so obvious.
A few of the places in detail are pretty wonderful I think. Like eating
ice
cream in the sewers. Her innocent joy at simple pleasures mixed with her
fears driving her to hide in dark places mixed with her ongoing
compulsions
to do things like memorize the turns and number of steps it took to get
her
there. It's a tribute to the writing and Amy Acker's performance that the
mixing and matching of quirks so often dwelled upon with her are so
endearing that we, the audience, welcome wallowing in them. I very much
appreciate Angel's observation that he finds her soothing.
The story she's drawing pivots around the handsome man saving her. Angel,
of course, just laps up that notion. Having Fred say that saving people
is
what he does is the affirmation he's always seeking. Is Fred taking over
Cordy's role that way, thereby freeing Cordy up to be more? If so, Fred
is
far more uncritical in her praise. Situationally, there's a lot of
parallel
between Fred and Cordy. Angel saved Cordy too. Took her under his wing
and
changed her life too. But, aside from obvious personality differences
between Cordelia and Winifred, Cordy had a back history with Angel. She
knew Angelus and the people he hurt - including Jenny. Cordy's fear of
Angelus has always been a defining element of their relation****p, one that
could be argued to further fuel Angel's urge to repress the demon within.
Fred, on the other hand, saw the demon almost right away without the taint
of prior history. And for some reason wasn't afraid. She insisted right
off that Angel was a good man. And she helped him get through a difficult
moment facing up to and controlling his demon self, all the while steadily
and freely accepting and believing in Angel. Angel owes a lot to Fred
too.
It's a storybook tale for both of them. And a little unique for the
people
around Angel. Not even Buffy accepted the demon in him so easily. Put it
in its place so quickly. Angel is Fred's hero. I think that's a subtext
of
their relation****p throughout. Fred's attitude will eventually falter of
course - it's difficult for a Whedon character to last so long without at
least some tainting - and other stories will push this one into the
background. But the memory of the handsome man saving her will be evoked
strongly again at the end of Fred's life. I don't know how strongly that
played to others, but it felt to me to be a huge part of how Fred's death
finally shocked Angel into action.
I'm not overly keen on the particular psychology used to explain Fred's
craziness in this episode. Something about hiding from known reality so
that the craziness she's experiencing can be perceived as unreal seems
almost banal to me - especially by manifesting known reality as mom and
dad
and the safety of home. The seeming ease by which she becomes sane
doesn't
win me either. Not that it's unbelievable exactly. More that it's
uninteresting. To a considerable extent this episode comes across to me
as
time to end the crazy Fred story so we can get to the real story.
But there are some attributes to that too. Fred's mom excitedly getting
off
her bus of death, jumping up and down, does a really good job of showing
Fred to be her mother's daughter. And the element of the reality vs.
fantasy story that I like is that in the end Fred embraces the fantastic
(hopefully now known as real) anyway. Rather than be scared by her story
she embraces it as special.
In your prior run-through you were seeking possible connections between
AtS
and BtVS even as they moved to different networks. This episode has the
obvious connection of Angel having met Buffy after finding out she was
alive. One of the amusing elements of the teaser is how it overtly
dismisses any significance to that. (Wesley's account of how unlikely it
is
that they'll get together is quite the hoot.) But on thematic terms one
can
see a stronger connection here. Fred's story is essentially a growing up
one where she finally loses her fear of the crazy unreal world away from
home and recognizes that's where she wants to be, and the crazy person
she's
become is who she is and wants to be. I don't see a lot of single episode
growing up going on in S6 BtVS, but more broadly, the characters are
painfully leaving their youth behind, forced to recognize how the real
world
works as opposed to how they fantasized it. There's also one episode that
does much the same thing as Fredless (albeit in a way different style),
which is Normal Again. Aside from sharing a theme of letting go of
growing
up and the safety of home, they both work with a confused sense of
reality,
where the "known" reality of a loving safe home ultimately proves more the
fantasy than the crazy monster filled world they actually live in. They
also both include a conscious choice of one over the other. (Do we choose
our realities?)
Normal Again does other things too, and is a ways into the future. On a
more near term one might see a kind of parallel with the way Buffy can
tell
Spike her inner feelings without them becoming real because he's just an
undead monster while the "real" world of her living friends remains
innocent
of such crazy talk. Fred's avoidance of her parents serves a similar
function to Buffy's avoidance of telling the Scoobies about heaven.
None of these parallels are perfect. Each series is very much going their
own way. But they're close enough to suggest to me that M.E. (or at least
Joss personally) can't help but have ways of thinking leak across both
series.
> Although few people will accuse "Fredless" of being the most
> engrossing or exciting of episodes from top to bottom, I'm left with a
> lot of warmth towards it. _Angel_ characters don't always inspire
> the same kind of love that _Buffy_ characters do, so this episode
> stands out as one of those times that I can genuinely say I care about
> these people and how they relate to each other.
One favorite moment of mine is Angel eagerly going to Cordelia to get
bandaged. (Dork!) You mention in the next episode the nice job AtS did
with teasing at Angel/Cordy romance (even if the payoff wasn't so hot).
I'll just add that this (and another moment or two) are part of the gentle
slide into that tease. It's a good period for the two, but I'm not sold
that an actual romance ever really makes sense.
> The vibe at the end
> once they're figuratively having dinner at their friends' house, as a
> group, feels touching to me, as does painting over the wall.
I guess the vibe is OK, but from the group good-by when Fred left until
the
end, I thought the episode really dragged. I think the episode was
playing
with us a little by giving us a series of moments that feel end-like so
that
the reversal of Fred staying plays stronger. But it didn't work like that
for me. Mostly I sat through the last part of the episode thinking I wish
it would end already.
> Rating: Good
Lorne has a striking presence in his part of the episode. Testy and
uncooperative. Even a little nasty. It feels kind of annoying as it
plays.
His big moment - telling Fred that she needs to run further - is nicely
confusing to the plot at that moment, but ends up not particularly helpful
nor meaningful. Which makes it a little annoying too. So I didn't much
like the character this episode. Yet, at the same time, it's kinda
different and more character defining than usual for Lorne. So I'm not
sure
whether to applaud or boo.
I think I'm more comfortable with this episode than the first time, when I
was having trouble getting through it. But I'm still not thrilled.
Instinctively I never believed that a no place like home message could
ever
be the conclusion, so there was very little tension in the story outcome
for
me. I can laugh a little at the Oz tribute of having Fred name the
allegorical figure each character represents, but bringing Kansas -er-
Texas
into AI still feels Intrusive to me. And not very entertaining. It's not
a
terrible episode with its assortment of endearing moments and thought
provoking ideas, but I can't rate it higher than Decent.
> Season Three, Episode 6: "Billy"
> Everyone who has anything to say about this show, almost without
> exception, is all about Wesley and his middling re-enactment of _The
> ****ning_.
It might call back to The ****ning some, but it's not a re-enactment. This
is about as far from Jack Nicholson's mugging as one can get. That
distinction is im****tant because it's Wesley's behavior that's most
interesting about it. (Not that the tension of the chase through the
hotel
isn't fun too. But I'm already long on record for my enjoyment of M.E.'s
enactments of the classic trapped in the house with a monster form.)
> Which remains as bizarre to me as ever, since Angel and
> Cordelia and Lilah are so clearly the main story for me.
And very good too. This episode stands out as dramatically strong for
almost all of the main characters. Fred and Billy are strong as well.
Only
Gunn is a little thin, but he only gets a brief time to have his part of
the
story told in shorthand. I don't want to downplay everybody else's part -
especially since the part leading up to the confrontation at the air****t
is
the story's mainline.
It's just that Wesley turns so dark with such a terrifying personality
that
he stands out more for me than anybody else.
> I often
> single this one out as the moment when I liked Cordy the most. What
> can I say, I'm a sucker for a chick with a sword. Some people have a
> hard time reconciling the Cordy who so eschewed violence on BTVS with
> the version who's suddenly a trained fighter and a "champion,"
> physical or moral.
Perhaps, but I think M.E. went through some effort to lay groundwork for
this even in BtVS. To begin with, Cordy was never a pushover. She may
not
have been ready for the physical stuff then, but she sure had the attitude
for it. And she witnessed champions in action. She knows what it's
about.
Later she was steeled in a number of ways. The physical ordeal of
surviving
a near fatal wound. Having to grow up fast when she loses all her wealth.
Learning something of real compassion from Xander. BtVS probably made her
regress a little too so that AtS could have a fuller redemption arc. But
I
don't sense a movement that denies what Cordelia was. Just one allowing
her
to grow. At least until it maybe gets too silly for any human to measure
up
to.
> Within ATS, I don't think it comes out of nowhere
> once one thinks about where she has to go once her illusions of an
> acting career go down in flames;
She's also been in the middle of many fights, expects to be in many more,
and can't help but see how her lack of skills are a problem. And, as she
points out with her cheerleader reference, she's not physically inept.
That
she hasn't moved this direction before strikes me as a kind of residue
from
girls like her not having to do stuff like that. With her carving up
demon
corpses and playing nurse to the wounded, somehow I think that illusion
left
a long time ago. She's part of a warrior clan now. It's only a matter of
time before she'll want to be a warrior herself.
> Pylea tries to play on the
> disillusionment theme as well. The person who isn't fully immersed in
> this world and devoted to following this mission to its end isn't her
> anymore. And as for the fighting skills, well, one of my favorite
> scenes in "Billy" has Cordy understanding that Lilah, as a woman,
> understands the need to not be helpless.
Lilah is probably my second favorite character of this episode. Lilah
will
never come close to redeeming herself in this series, but Wesley's hopes
for
her will bubble beneath for quite a while. Early S3 - especially this
episode - I think lays a lot of groundwork to allow one to hope just
maybe.
(It just occurred to me. Nobody from W&H ever gets redeemed, do they?)
This is still pretty fresh from the departure of Lindsey - a departure
that
at least hinted at good qualities within him. Lilah early on keeps
talking
about Lindsey - usually with implied praise. Presumably she was also
flattered by Lindsey's parting remarks and goose. Might she want in her
heart to follow Lindsey's footsteps? (No. But at this point in the
series
that's not so certain.) And then there was the surprising ease of (fake)
Angel seducing her. A bunch of little things suggesting a heart within
her
waiting to burst free.
I thought S2 Lilah was intriguing - especially with foreknowledge of her
fate. But this is the season where M.E. makes her just sympathetic enough
of a villain to wreck our hopes when it matters. It's hard for her ordeal
this episode not to touch us. Alas, it probably touches her mainly to
take
her ruthlessness up a notch. The real message may be that she's quite
capable of pulling the trigger.
> The Angel/Cordelia sparring
> scenes that open and near-close the show convey how close they've
> become, while finding room for enough ***ual energy to almost makes
> one want to see them hook up, even knowing the bad romantic comedy and
> bad over-wrought soppiness that will come when the show actually
> pursues that story. The story of the hunt for Billy allows for plenty
> of unexpected reversals, humorous asides and interludes, and is all in
> all a damn good action episode.
The episode keeps me on the edge of my seat pretty much throughout. There
are several levels of mystery and detctive work. Clever little plot
twists,
like having Cordy leap frog ahead of Angel in the hunt for Billy and the
transfer effect of the bloody palm print. And a general tautness to the
production that has us leaping from one loaded scene to the next. Not a
lot
of filler. But then they're bringing something substantial to 7 major
characters. Not a lot of time for filler.
> Meanwhile, I'm not even touching on the episode's attempt to ****tray
> the civilized man's fear that he has a fundamental hatred of women,
> which is more of a hit and miss proposition for me.
I think there's a fair amount of misdirect in that. The concept is
originally so blandly stated as true that one can easily fall into the
sense
that the story really means that, but then it gets pushed to such an
absurd
level that it's difficult crediting any belief in it. (Though Angel's
explanation of why he wasn't affected seems to trivialize hate and comes
across kind of absurd too.) When push comes to shove, one evil person
kills
another evil person, each of whom are in their own way responsible - male
and female - for the evil spewed upon everybody else. On a very simple
symbolic level, the way Billy actually operated was to project himself
upon
others. It's not some general primal force. It's Billy infecting his
victims with his own evil.
The conversation between Fred and Wesley attempts to get that across, but
the enduring effect of Billy is leave behind a fear of what we're all
capable of. Not the misogyny run amok. That's Billy's personal problem.
Rather it's the ability to sink to any level if placed in the right
(wrong)
position. No matter what moral standards one imagines holding to. Note
how
every main character in this story other than Fred sets out to kill at one
point or another. And even Fred gets some violence on.
> And where does
> Wesley fit into all this? People have written a lot about it, and
> I've read all of those posts, but I still don't see how we can draw
> any deeper conclusions about what he's like given that his persona
> here is so generic.
For me, the first thing is showing *how* Wesley can behave when pushed to
an
extreme. What grabbed me was simply how terrifying Wesley suddenly was.
Forget the motive and particular words for the moment. The way he goes
about his Fred chase remains in character for Wesley - assuming he's
turned
all evil. It's the strongest indication to date of just how dangerous he
could be if turned the wrong direction. So the connection to a possible
future is also scary. But first I'm transfixed by his behavior right now.
For me, this is one of the most chilling ****trayals in the AtS run.
> The show has on occasion led people to suggest
> the idea that Wes's dark side includes deep-seated issues with all
> things female, but like many of the sources of his problems, that's
> left mostly to audience inference.
Really? I never got that. The only consistently presented source of his
problems is his struggle to live up to the expectations of an abusive
father. The awkward mix of his exaggerated boasting and actual fumbling
around women seems to me to be all about measuring up as a man, which
again
translates to measuring up to his father. Justine and Lilah gets ahead of
ourselves and into the particulars of a fallen Wesley. But I still don't
see that as deep-seated issues with women. Especially since he develops a
kind of secret devotion to Lilah.
> I do like Elisi's idea that it
> shows something about the character that he's haunted to the degree he
> is by what he's done while someone like Gunn can shrug it off.
Gunn wasn't under the influence long enough to really internalize the
experience the way Wesley did. Wesley's too smart not to see that, so I
doubt that influences him that much. I think he's too obsessed with
himself
at the moment to give that much thought anyway.
However, I think he still is haunted by the thought of what he can do. We
had a different, less creepy version of this back in Pylea when he coldly
made the hard decision to send a ****tion of the rebels to their death.
What
I suspect (it's not stated) Wesley sees isn't the primal anti-woman
element
in him. Rather it's the capability for cold-hearted action. The topic
isn't the point. He could just see that his behavior was true to himself.
That he really can be that way. I suspect he sensed something similar in
Pylea when he resisted taking charge of the rebels. He feared where that
would take him. And now his fears are largely confirmed on a very
personal
level. Even the woman he desires isn't safe once he moves into that
calculating mode.
> Speaking of whom, apparently a great way to win the love of a woman is
> to encourage her to hit you over the head with blunt objects - I
> wonder if Gunn pulled way ahead in the love triangle right there?
I think he was actually already ahead. Look at the hugs in the last
episode. The thing is that under any cir***stances, Wesley's high
maintenance. Gunn's easy. Assuming roughly comparable early appeal, Gunn
will always come first. This episode just makes it a little more obvious.
> Rating: Good
I'm definitely keeping my Excellent rating. This remains one of my
favorite
AtS episodes. Though there may be a couple better this season. We'll
see.
> Season Three, Episode 7: "Offspring"
> Finally, the big stuff starts to happen again - the stuff Angel wishes
> he could forget about from last year and from a few centuries ago both
> become more relevant than ever. Throwing Darla into the mix like this
> plays to that character's always interesting mix of cruelty and
> vulnerability, and seems like a powerful idea. But the ideas once
> again strike me as more powerful than the episode itself. Nothing
> jumps out as particularly botched, but there's just a lack of extra
> kick to go along with all the setup. This episode's play seems to be
> mostly about stating a surprising fact and then having everyone gasp
> and talk about it dramatically in hushed voices for the next ten
> minutes, repeat. That leaves it as one of those shows that advances
> the arc, but I'm not inclined to remember much about it beyond how it
> relates to other, generally better episodes.
> Rating: Decent
I feel very much the same way. This episode has the trappings of a Whedon
#7, but it just kinda lurches out there and pronounces itself im****tant.
The ideas around Darla are good - especially the closing realization that
the baby has a soul. But, really, Darla is way more entertaining next
episode. And that's all I want to say. It should have been better, but
it's still Decent.
> Season Three, Episode 8: "Quickening"
> Writer: Jeffrey Bell
> Director: Skip Schoolnik
>
> Still only in the Good range, and I don't have anything particularly
> insightful to say about it, but my opinion of this one has changed.
> It's a really tight episode, taut where the similarly setup-heavy
> "Offspring" was limp, and I didn't properly appreciate it last time.
> It's chaotic in a medium-scale way that doesn't overwhelm, but that
> makes the time fly by. Neither Holtz nor Sahjahn are new characters,
> but this is their chance to make an impression now that the audience
> knows that they'll be handling Big Ambiguously Bad duties, and they
> don't disappoint; until they get better defined, the fact that they
> have each other for contrast is a benefit. Meanwhile there's an
> entertaining mishmash of minor villains and employees throwing their
> hats into the ring as the hour of birth gets closer and both the
> characters and the viewer can become increasingly convinced that the
> twenty-first century is when everything changes...
> Rating: Good
I don't think I have much to add to that either - except to say again how
cool Darla is this episode. It's really Good. Not great. I don't like
Gavin. But he's a world better than Linwood, who will annoy me no end.
Holtz gets off to a terrific start. But who knew what a fantastic
character
he would become?
> Additional comments on S3D2: Fred is surprisingly hard to get a
> handle on sometimes. Now, I should mention that since last run-
> through, I've become aware of the fact that there are some members of
> ATS fandom who strongly dislike this character. I hadn't really known
> that, since she appears to be pretty widely appreciated on these NGs.
> I was a bit confused the first time I saw people taking it for granted
> that she was loathsome; how the hell can you not adore Fred? I think
> it's because I'm one of those very easily charmed by geeky quirk -
> some may argue that comparing her to Willow is getting distracted by
> the surface stuff, but she strongly appeals to me initially for the
> same surface reasons. That more than anything gives me patience to
> deal with her unusual mix of capability and apparent helplessness,
> things that lead those making hasty judgments to label her a Mary
> Sue. It may take awhile to really process her inclination, when not
> on her own, to default to playing the damsel in distress even when
> it's not necessary. Unintentionally or by design, Fred does have a
> way of interacting that moves the other characters, particularly the
> males, around her. But I say that's simply part of what she is. I
> don't see the show attempting to ****tray her as somehow perfect or
> saintly; she makes mistakes and gets people angry like anyone else.
> Plus, in my mind, she's too unique to fit into a typical Mary Sue
> mold.
I don't know of any saintly characters in AtS. Tara may approach that in
BtVS, though sometimes I think they make her too good.
I think the comparison to Willow is natural - as is the similarity in
appeal. AtS even plays on that a little in Orpheus.
However, I think there's a major distinction between the two (aside from
different personalities in detail). Fred is also the classic waif.
Mutant
Enemy is rather blatant about it. She's the homeless little girl found
huddling in a dark place, dressed in rags, skin and bones. In art,
literature and film, the waif is an image near certain to pull at
everybody's heart strings. In story and out. Even though Fred is
shamelessly thrust upon us that way - we don't care. We're instantly
invested in protecting her. Just as Angel is. Just as everybody is.
Geek girls have some waif qualities built in. They're not the athletes.
They're not the leaders. You don't generally look to them first as
heroes.
But that's awfully mild compared to Fred huddling in her cave. In time
she
grows a lot - as did Willow. But Fred never projects Willow's sense of
power. (Illyria doesn't count.) She never fully steps away from the meek
girl living under Angel and team's protection.
There's potential in that for story development, but oddly, it doesn't get
played all that strongly until her death approaches. Baby Connor will
soon
supersede her function as character most in need of protection. And then
the perils of Cordelia will consume a whole lot of attention, even though
she no longer has to fulfill the function of needing saving.
That doesn't seem to affect Fred's appeal. Her quirky geekness and
vulnerable waifness do the heavy lifting while we're perpetually delighted
when she shows us more. (It helps that Amy Acker is probably the best
actor
of the bunch.)
> Thoughts?
When I watched this season first time I was quite skeptical at this point.
The episodes had been entertaining enough, though not overwhelming as a
whole. But Darla's pregnancy seemed.... so out there. Part of me admired
the risk taking, but I couldn't help feeling that this was teetering on
the
edge of stupid. I'm not a big fan of the jump the shark concept. But
boy,
did this series seem to be risking that.
I continued to feel like the show walked that edge through pretty much the
whole year, though I gradually became more confident that they wouldn't
fall
off it. It remains a marvel to me that this tightrope act ends up so
coherent.
|
