"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsmtsm@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:c57549c3-ffab-44ce-95c8-2c9dfc0f3b7d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> A reminder: These threads would like to test that theory.
That's borrowed dialogue. No way that's gonna be strong enough.
> BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
> Season Six, Episode 19: "Villains"
> "Villains" is almost one of the all-time classics. Hannigan's
> monotone take on "running on pure fury" used to bother me more, but as
> part of a three-episode cycle, I enjoy the look at the different
> facets of darkness in Willow. This episode is the one that
> efficiently moves us from Willow as a scary x-factor to Willow as a
> villain, without ever taking a step that doesn't seem like her.
True - and I can cite with the best of them why it's all founded in her.
Still, the sense that gets me the most at this point is one of denial.
That
can't really be Willow can it? It's next episode that Jonathan says, "She
packed her own lunches and wore floods and was always... just Willow."
But
it's this stage that I'm really thinking that. You comment below about
the
painfulness of some of the lines like, "there are limits to what we can
do...." But the essence of those messages aren't the preaching. It's the
fear that they're losing just Willow. Buffy's desperate to stop her
because, as she says next episode, killing changes you. And Willow
herself
said that she wasn't coming back.
I think that gives this episode of the trilogy a little special kick.
She's
running amok, but hasn't crossed the line yet. Until the awful end. And
then she can never be just Willow again. Maybe they'll contain the
explosion and save the world. They just won't get their Willow back. So
I
don't care so much if there's a triteness to some of the words. The
spirit
of them works. (Besides. Even with it's quotables, Two To Go is the
episode with run at the mouth declaiming.)
> Plus,
> revenge is fun, and I love the look at Warren as things start to not
> go his way and he gets to die painfully in full awareness of how
> pathetic he is.
I love Adam Busch's performance here.
> But you know how some episodes just teem with
> quotables? Along with its great lines, or at least great deliveries
> of lines like "I'm not coming back," "Villains" is also teeming with
> non-quotables, leaden chunks of ponderous abstract statements that
> make for the opposite of a crackling conversation. If anyone wants to
> make a list, I'll start with "there are limits to what we can do.
> There should be. Willow doesn't want to believe that. And now she's
> messing with forces that want to hurt her." It's like if one were to
> take a plot on the level of, say, "Consequences" and randomly drop in
> dialogue left over from "Spiral." This griping is mainly to justify
> not giving this one (Marti's final solo writing credit, for those of
> you into trivia) an Excellent, since it's exciting enough to almost
> deserve one, especially once you throw in that mind-blowing ending
> sequence. Now that I've seen the whole series, Willow soaking up the
> writing remains my favorite special effect of BTVS - uniqueness goes a
> long way with me.
Among the things I love about this episode is the fa****on in which they
mirror Willow's behavior in Tough Love. Partly to show how true to Willow
it is. But more to show how much worse, how much more dangerous it is
this
time. Especially in the Magic Box where soaking up the dark magicks is so
much more intense then breaking the lock on the book was then. That's so
disquieting now in good part because the old version had been the standard
for a Willow explosion.
> Rating: Good
I'm going with an Excellent for this. I think I did before. If I must
break up the three (which I usually watch together), then this is slightly
my favorite. "One tiny piece of metal."
> Season Six, Episode 20: "Two To Go"
> What was that about crackling dialogue? William called TTG "an
> absolute wonderland of quotability, perhaps second only to
> Doppelgangland in that respect" last time around.
Yeah, but it bogs down in the endless confrontation at Rack's moving onto
the Buffy/Willow fight back at the Magic Box. Not that I object to the
sentiments. Willow's ridicule of Dawn is priceless. And there definitely
is a thrill in seeing Willow and Buffy face off. But the volume of words
really get in the way of this section and make for my most disappointing
scene in this trilogy - the Buffy/Willow fight. It ought to be a classic
-
one of the highpoints of the series. The construct of power against power
with deep emotional connections brings to mind the Buffy/Angel
confrontation
in Becoming and the Buffy/Faith fight in Graduation Day. And it feels
that
way for a moment.
Doesn't live up to it though. The fight choreography teases at excellence
for a bit, but never gets there. Quickly enough it peters out with a
pathetic conclusion of a slight shove by Willow somehow knocking Buffy out
briefly as Willow discovers Anya. Meanwhile the talking is interminable -
coming on the heels of a talkfest at Racks. I know that the fight/talk
combination is a staple of these shows, but this one kind of thuds for me.
This doesn't stop the rest of the episode from thrilling. It's just that
it
feels so much like a great lost op****tunity - especially since Buffy won't
be the center of the finale.
> It's strange
> trading the depression and high drama of much of S6 for what's
> basically a live-action comic book, but I certainly won't complain if
> it reminds me why I've gotten so much enjoyment out of a few fast-
> paced movies and comics in my time. Now that she's taken out Tara's
> killer, a more Willowish sense of fun emerges from our favorite black-
> eyed girl; she's enjoying being the star of the show even more than I
> enjoy watching it. Why is evil so much fun? But let's not forget
> Buffy, our actual star. She becomes as a champion of life and non-
> destruction, with the cred (I feel like Fred using unacceptable words)
> that can only come from first-hand experience. Also one of the few
> (only?) times _Buffy_ goes for a surprise character appearance at the
> end; that's normally more ATS's territory. It's a good one, though,
> somehow making me even more excited about this arc after what was
> already a thrilling standoff... makes me glad I got to watch TTG and
> "Grave" as individual chapters, as Joss intended.
> Rating: Excellent
There's a bunch of cool things in this episode from Willow's unearthly
scream when she finds the nerds escaped from their cell, to Willow
steering
the truck as her power drains. Not to mention one of the coolest surprise
endings ever on TV. I was finally watching the episodes as they ran by
this
point and can remember the excited talk from friends about Rupert's
entrance. A couple of days ago I happened to catch a little Firefly on
TV,
including River's line, "No power in the 'verse can stop me." I had an
urge
to see Giles appear just then.
For some reason I was especially struck this watching by Willow's reunion
with Rack, which for me justifies their original meeting that upsets a lot
of people. Partly, of course, for the payback. Revenge is underrated.
(Now where have I heard that before... I seem to be overloaded with
Whedonverse sentiments lately.) But also - and I hesitate to say this -
because I think the moment leading into it really gets the ugly *****cism
of
their connection. Call me twisted, but the ***ual energy alone ought to
be
recharging Willow.
I note how you're emphasizing this trio of episodes as individual
chapters.
It's a worthy sentiment that does capture the increments of movement in
them. Still the collective sense of them feeding and flowing into each
other gets me more, making it hard to rate them individually. Alone I'd
rate this Good - barely short of Excellent. It's kind of the crazy fun
episode of the group, but lacking the substance of Willow's fall last
episode and the grand conclusion of the next. And a little down graded
for
the disappointing cat fight. But that misses how integral it is to an
overall Excellent for the trio that exceeds any of the individual
episodes.
> Season Six, Episode 21: "Grave"
> It's always a little disappointing that, like S3 before it, S6 closes
> on something less than the perfect bang it seems to deserve.
It does close with a bang though.
> "Grave"
> has a knack for coming up with things that're unexpected yet seem to
> fit, and then executing them in a decent but flawed manner. Giles's
> reaction to Buffy telling him about her life caught me off guard but
> makes sense as something they both needed; from there, the
> interactions are intriguing in where there's healing and where there's
> still distance (also, Anya vying for attention always kills me).
> Sadly it brings back all my issues about Giles abandoning her, reduced
> to a brief brushed-off apology, like the show's letting him off the
> hook - granted, it's the season finale, we don't have time to sort
> through every emotional reaction anyone's ever had.
I agree except for one thing. It's true that it reminds me of things that
I
never fully reconcile with Giles looking both forwards and backwards.
However, within the framework of that overall flawed story, the ambiguity
of
this moment is just about as good as it gets for me. I like the
combination
of healing and distance. I like how Giles can make Buffy laugh about what
she's gone through this year, but still can't answer the question of why
she's here. The show gets a lot out of very little in their scene
together.
Would they have had the same success elsewhere.
> The plotting
> certainly has its moments: particularly, Willow becoming more of a
> threat to the world the more she gets focused on fixing people's
> problems is too perfect to pass up. Unfortunately, there's enough of
> the plot that involves outside forces being brought in out of nowhere,
> is relayed to us by Giles lying on the floor and slowly mumbling bits
> of exposition, and only the bits that the script has arbitrarily given
> him permission to reveal.
Described that way it sure sounds dopey. Still, I love the way that plays
out and how it feeds Anya's emotions.
I don't know how much was intended to show Anya's heart as opposed to
fitting her into the episode with the usual comic relief. But there it is
whatever the intent, and it's Anya on her own showing caring, compassion
and
love for a friend in distress. (Also receiving by proxy her last great
lesson on humanity from Xander.) It seems to me to be a big peak at the
underlying heart that will bedevil her demon ways.
I also don't think of it as outside forces appearing from nowhere. The
whole thing is mainly a good vs. evil battle fighting for Willow's soul.
And the outside agents that matter are simply her friends seeking to save
her. Surely it's understood in our hearts - even if our minds haven't
caught up yet - that Giles comes to save Willow. Not defeat her. In
context one shouldn't make too much of the stealth good magic. That's
just
the trick to catch Willow off guard. (And a natural counterbalance to the
dark magic.) I think we have plenty of foundation that Giles could only
overcome Willow with trickery, and such tricks are normally fully revealed
in story only in their triumph. The magic itself merely allows her heart
to
be touched. Then Xander does the heavy lifting to bring it home. As out
of
the blue devices go, this is small stuff compared to - say - a certain
scythe. And far more logical.
> The climax featuring a carpenter saving
> humanity through his love (there's a reason it's a classic, I guess)
> is pretty sappy and heavy-handed, but damned if it doesn't work great,
Yep. Useless Xander comes through again.
> even on re-watch. And Buffy summing up the season is also sappy and
> heavy-handed, the difference being that it's not such great TV.
Yep. That's this episode's relatively weak part. Starting with the fall
into the hole. I don't really mind the sentiment of Buffy finally seeing
how she's preventing Dawn from growing, but as the final installment of
Buffy's season long climb from her metaphorical grave, it just doesn't
stack
up to all that preceded it. Which makes gazing at the wonder of living
somehow less poignant than it ought to be.
> I'm
> not so convinced that the symbolism needs to be spelled out so
> bluntly, but even if we take it as a given that it does, everything
> from the underwhelming special effects to the clunky staging to the
> soppy speech falls substantially flat, leaving one's last impression
> of the amazing S6 as something less than amazing.
I have no issue with the Willow/Xander part. That's plenty amazing enough
for me. Plus there's that part that you've studiously avoided talking
apart. You know. The actual ending of the episode. I understand a
little
what you're saying by comparing it to the relative disappointment of the
S3
finale, but I still like it a lot because even with the sappy music and
images, the physical and emotional exhaustion really come through. The
way
it comes across to me is much akin to the image of wounded warriors
leaning
on each other as they depart the still smoking battlefield. It's a moment
that carries with it all that's come before, and the pain they will carry
forward. Yet somehow acknowledging through it that life is for the
living.
I like that.
> Willow's head-rush isn't as excruciating as I'd expected it to be on
> re-watching, if you care.
Heh.
> Rating: Good
I'm an absolute sucker for Xander saving the world (to Anya's
astonishment)
and Giles making Buffy laugh and Jonathan accepting the error of his ways
-
until op****tunity to run away offers itself - and Spike revealing the
soulquest. Not to mention the wonderful battle between Giles and Willow
that sort of runs from start to finish. The good stuff this episode
overwhelms the lagging parts to my tastes and pulls out a scant Excellent.
This trio of episodes as a whole, however, earn a very strong Excellent.
This run (which I usually watch along with Seeing Red) is likely the most
entertaining sequence of the series for me. I won't say the best - none
of
these episodes are top ten for the series. Just the ones I like to get
out
the popcorn for and watch in thrilling series.
> Additional comments on S6D6: I managed to make it through the thread
> without mentioning (except elliptically here) a certain character who
> dominates all the discussions despite appearing for a grand total of
> maybe four minutes on this disc (a few seconds of which are really
> really im****tant, but still)...
I hear he just wanted to get laid.
> On the decision to hold off on Dark Willow until the very end of the
> year, I'm very much in favor.
I love what they did. I'm still curious what ideas they may have had to
sustain a more extended Willow as big bad arc. It surely couldn't work
like
this. What would the alternative be? Might she, for example, have become
the leader of the Trio?
> (Is there a non-Buffy major character that
> doesn't go evil or at least highly ambiguous at some point?)
Tara.
In BtVS alone - Cordelia.
> Also, if
> nothing else, pre-veiny jet-black Willow is incredibly hot.
Duh.
Actually, veiny Willow is incredibly hot too.
> My ratings ticked upward for a couple episodes, but otherwise stayed
> the same on re-watching. I'm not showing my numerical work, because I
> don't think anyone else cares, but in terms of both mean and
> pro****tion of good episodes, the numbers agree with my gut feeling
> that S6 is pretty clearly the second-best season so far, behind Season
> Three. Both finish ahead of any season of _Angel_.
I think my ratings went up slightly too, but I think the episode average
is
still below S4. Even so, this is clearly my favorite season.
> I give you back... your free time. Well, till next season. For your
> reference, I'm still going to try to vaguely approximate airdate order
> during S7/S4, so the _Buffy_ threads will be posted first through disc
> 4 or 5, then we'll switch it up.
Someone posted a link once that had air dates including network re-runs.
Do
you have that - or a list - by any chance? I'm only interested in S6.
OBS
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