On Mar 13, 5:44 pm, "One Bit Shy" <O...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
messagenews:56612ddd-a1d5-4d08-8e97-65c90acae3fe@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > My original
> > reaction to the brilliantly constructed argument was "ye gods, what a
> > great scene," and indeed it is. It's the best "Scoobies arguing"
> > sequence, even better than that other one that was so good, and that
> > other other one.
>
> Again I'm fascinated at how well it speaks to the S7 themes of the
slayer
> power all resting on Buffy alone. Arguably it might lay it out better
than
> CWDP - perhaps because of the way this conversation ties it back to the
> series history of Buffy bearing the burden alone. It certainly sets the
> foundation for coming conflict with the Scoobies.
>
> At the same time - in the very best of a BtVS tradition that has always
> amazed me - it is spot on for the moment and the immediate crisis at
hand.
> Indeed, it may be the episode's peak. This ability to layer multiple
> powerful implications into a single sequence (it also introduces the
tension
> of Buffy expecting more from a reluctant Willow) without sacrificing any
> element in favor of another has an awful lot to do with my love affair
with
> this series.
Agreed.
> > Something that I appreciated comes during the confrontation between
> > Anya and Buffy. Something new this viewing, I mean, so that's in
> > addition to the already acknowledged killer act break and the equally
> > wonderful jump from song to present day. Anya's line "c'mon, Buffy.
> > Don't you have a clever retort for me?" calls attention to the way our
> > hero is almost completely silent during the fight sequence. Buffy's
> > tried to kill her friends before, but this is set apart from the other
> > times by her sheer intensity. This is a Slayer, doing what she sees
> > as the thoroughly unpleasant job that no one else can.
>
> Buffy's silence during their fight is one of the episode's curiosities
to
> me. I'll echo Don's observation that Buffy seems to stand there waiting
for
> Anya to revive after being stabbed - as if she knew full well that it
wasn't
> a killing blow. I don't know if that means she's actively trying to
find
> another solution - the information available seems insufficient to
> confidently assert that. But at the least I believe we're seeing a real
> reluctance on Buffy's part. Indeed, in the next episode Buffy will
rescue
> Anya and bring her under Buffy's wing as one of Buffy's friends -
"friend"
> specifically used.
>
> I think this is interesting in light of the earlier big argument.
Buffy's
> logic is pretty much irrefutable - even Willow knows she has no choice.
And
> the Angel story effectively establishes that the decision matters to her
in
> they way Xander accuses her of it not.
>
> Be that as it may, Buffy's apparent attitude still rings a little hollow
in
> light of her history of refusing the expedient solution when faced with
no
> evident choice. That was a big theme at the end of S3 with regards to
> saving both Willow and Angel. And even a bigger theme at the end of S5
with
> regards to saving Dawn. As we discussed some back in S2, I've always
felt
> that skewering Angel in Becoming was so devastating to Buffy that, at
least
> subconsciously, she swore to never do that again. Which she's pretty
much
> lived up to (with the possible exception of Faith, but that gets into
side
> complexities I don't care to get into now), all the way to choosing her
own
> death instead.
[snip]
> So I do like to think that something was staying Buffy's hand as she
battled
> Anya. Perhaps Xander's words - as un-artful as they were - prodded
Buffy's
> heart just enough. The tightrope balancing of attitudes certainly fits
with
> the seasonal themes. Also, the repeat of the Becoming scenario of
> swordfight while Willow seeks a solution off-stage, differs in the very
> im****tant respect that this time Willow intercedes in time. A sequence
that
> also pre-sages the series finale of working the critical magic off-stage
> while the slayer army tries to survive.
It doesn't have to be an either/or. It can be a tightrope. It
follows from the argument, in which Buffy firmly believes that killing
Anya is the right thing to do, arguing passionately for it, but it
doesn't stop her from almost begging Xander to come up with a better
plan. Buffy's silence and mannerisms during the confrontation with
Anya emphasize how unpleasant a duty this is for her, more so than any
other time in the series (if we refer only to her feelings *before*
doing a job, it hits me harder than "Becoming"). For better and for
worse ("and" because that's not an either/or, um, either), she's
comfortably taken on the mantle of the Slayer who's the only one who
faces what no one else should have to.
[Dawn's cheerleading]
> > It's also possible that the viewer is meant to be cringing out of
> > sympathy, but BTVS usually does that by playing for realism and
> > universality. Whereas this scene comes in a "comedy" episode through
> > a situation that's so contrived that any hope for empathy dissipates.
>
> You've never found yourself in a position that's out of your league?
And gotten involved with it anyway out of a desire to impress an
unlikable crush while under the influence of a magic spell? Nah.
Except for that one time...
> What I really dislike about it - even more than your quite accurate
> observation - is the way bringing Anya into the Summer's house (and in
close
> contact with Xander) undermines the beautiful conclusion of Selfless
where
> she finally determines to find her true self, and finally forgives
Xander,
> but in a final separation sort of way. This episode tries to explain it
> away with words, but the kind of words that sound an awful lot like
writers
> scrambling to change their minds.
Maybe they figured they'd used up their quota of "Anya apart from the
group" time. But still, if ever a series was crying out for a major
character to take a few weeks off (well, ATS S3 was too, but for very
different reasons)...
> A minor episode with little engaging in it. (Though I continue to like
> Buffy with the rocket launcher.)
That seems to be a popular moment. Probably for good reason, since
it's got the comedic timing that so many of the other gags lack (every
element of the scene needs to be there for it to work, especially
oblivious Wood). One of the only two or three times I even smile
during the last 20-25 minutes of "Him."
> Having said that, I'd still like to praise some of the elements that
really
> strike home for me. I love the scene of Buffy trying to follow Spike
> through the crowd.
A defining feature of this episode for me is people trying to pass
through crowds. Less of a good thing for me.
> I especially love the final conversation between Buffy and Spike. (I
don't
> know why you consider the explanation of Spike plagued with inflicted
> visions as a let-down.) I love how Spike finally comprehending that his
> madness is inflicted moves from despair to hope, stops thinking that he
> doesn't deserve help and starts asking for it. And I love how the
> realization of what is being done to Spike further clarifies the
> possibilities within Spike to Buffy, so that she acts with her heart and
> says yes to Spike's pleas.
>
> Spike: Will you... Help me. Can you help me?
> Buffy: I'll help you.
>
> At this moment that's a commitment, I believe. In that sense, as
powerful
> and commanding to Buffy as her commitment to Joyce to protect Dawn in
S5.
[Shrug.] She's been helping him already this year and will again. I
guess my mind prefers to channel its "momentous moment" energy into "I
believe in you" from the next episode instead.
> For me it's one of the most powerful moments of the season - and
possibly
> the critical element that the Scoobies don't comprehend in their
subsequent
> expressions of doubt that will divide our intrepid warriors.
> > Why
> > the First implants a trigger in Spike and not anyone else confuses me
> > too (along with why exactly it's so interested in him to begin with -
> > does it see his potential to become a detergent?), since it suggests
> > more (semi)coherent planning than the rest of S7 displays.
>
> I don't think the "trigger" is just some mechanical thing The First can
> implant in anybody. (Though the seeming mechanical aspect of it
probably
> does matter, at least in a character sense. The First's means of attack
on
> Spike parallels the effect of the chip - in reverse - something unique
and
> peculiar to Spike.) I think it's more a found op****tunity within Spike
> that's capable of overriding the effects of the chip (for reasons not
really
> explained) and, more im****tantly, of the soul. It's not even really
> implanted. Just discovered. We're eventually shown that it is
associative
> memory that psychologically returns him to the time he truly turned
evil.
> (Theoretically, one might imagine that something similar might have been
> prompted by the tune even without The First's presence. Of course The
First
> manipulates the effect through the use of visions.)
>
> Once Spike learns what's happening, it ceases to have any power over
him.
> Again suggesting that it's not something implanted from outside, but
rather
> something natural to himself. That actually makes Spike one of the
better
> examples of how The First is really the evil within oneself.
That works nicely, thanks. The characters largely treat it as if it
were a literally implanted device, so the incomplete analogy kinda
dominated my thinking about it.
-AOQ
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