"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsmtsm@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:69b6d98c-af74-433b-a09c-787cbb3e94ea@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ANGEL
> Season Four, Episode 5: "Supersymmetry"
> _Angel_ does confluences well. I'm a fan of the attack on Fred
> happening in a room full of suspects, while Wesley was looking on from
> the shadows and Lilah was watching him, and a bigger fan of Angel
> trying to reconstruct the web later (hey, isn't this the kind of thing
> the group ought to do from time to time, what with being detectives
> and all)? It's not on a "Benediction" level of coolness, but those
> are tough standards to match.
I like this stuff too, though comparison to Benediction would be
incidental.
It's not that kind of confluence. In one sense it's kind of accidental.
In
another it's a revelation that the world revolves around Fred. Well,
maybe
it's a little premature (by a season and a half) for that, but it does
show
her to be more of a pivot point than perhaps we had realized. And, for
this
episode, I rather like thinking of it that way because Fred is very self
focused.
Meanwhile, the business of Angel with the chairs is just plain fun. It's
good when they logically figure stuff out. Of course Fred goes and
figures
it out on her own anyway - so maybe it didn't turn out to be all that
useful. AtS isn't shy about showing futility. And I suppose the
underlying
point was to demonstrate Angel's photographic memory again. When exactly
did we first see that?
> Meanwhile, Acker gets a good chance to
> show off her versatility - and Fred's - as she gets a chance to pay
> back the bastard who ruined her life. Wesley comes off very well as
> Fred's matter-of-fact enabler, aware of the consequences but leaving
> her to make the decisions.
He comes off well? Hmmm. I'd say that he certainly played to Fred's mood
and desires. To the extent that's respectful of her free will is to the
same extent that he's enabling her poor decisions. Wesley is walking some
tricky moral and ethical ground here. That matter of fact balancing of
consequences (which comes off more as token acknowledgment so that it can
be
dismissed) looks an awful lot like helping to bring Fred down to his level
of making dubious (and brutal) hard decisions. Meanwhile, it sure is
convenient for him that it's the way back into Fred's good graces. (At
least seemingly.) Aside from still having a thing for, she had shut the
door on him at least as hard as had Angel. And, well, he's performed his
penance to Angel. Fred's the obstacle.
> That's in contrast to the way Fred
> interacts with Gunn, as the episode posits that each has a badly
> sanitized view of the other. They have no one to blame but themselves
> for it, because those watching the series without blinders on can
> attest to what they're both capable of. I think breaking the guy's
> neck is probably the worst choice Gunn could have made, but I've heard
> people say they sympathized with his no-win situation.
I sympathize. But it's still a terrible choice.
> This concept
> is the kind of thing that works very well for any writers seeking a
> good trigger to break up a long-ish running couple, or for those just
> trying to write an interesting episode with some weight. Best show
> of the early season pre-intensive-serial period.
> Rating: Good
There's a lot that's very good about this episode - I largely agree with
your evaluation. There are a couple things about the episode that I'm not
fond of - though I'm not sure how much, if at all, to fault the episode in
itself.
First is Cordy/Connor. While this isn't the first suggestion of a
potential
affair between them, nor a particularly unsettling version of it, it is
pretty boldly suggesting that it'll come. Worse, it's in a context
suggesting that it could come naturally to real Cordelia, not just Jasmine
possession. So this episode carries an anticipatory stink of what's to
come - one of the reasons that the season works less well for me on
re-watch.
It's a little early to really get into the Cordy/Connor thing, but I might
as well get it out of the way now. I've been torn sometimes about how
creepy it really is. Charisma Carpenter and Vincent Kartheiser together
is
always unsettling. But in-story, the age difference isn't really that
large. A 22 year old CC would probably play very differently. But the
thing is, the show consciously plays it as creepy. It's supposed to be
unsettling. Indeed, in this episode, Cordelia speaks of knowing Connor as
a
baby. (Even if she can't remember it.) I think I'll go with series'
intent
that this be seen as a twisted relation****p.
The series also uses this relation****p to really bring down Connor from
the
confused teenager acting out that we've seen to date, to something on a
whole other level of sickness. There certainly is a kind of drama to the
destruction of Connor, but it's the kind I find very disagreeable to
watch.
I'm not sure I can explain exactly why Faith's story, which may have been
every bit as personally destructive, thrills me, while Connor's story
makes
me squirm. But it does. And it's the story that's going to be the
underlying center for the whole season. So that's the first obvious
reason
why S4 doesn't really work for me, even with all its flash/bang adventure.
Second is the ending of Gunn/Fred. (Not official yet, but pretty much a
done deal.) Now this isn't so bad. Indeed, the emotional drama of it
works
very well, and will continue to be well used furthering multiple
characters
and situations. It's just a shame that this little corner of happiness
had
to be ripped from the series. Not just for itself - though breakfast with
Fred and Gunn sure was nice, whether at the diner or pancake kiss in bed -
but because it held at bay a little the bleakness of the series.
Whether any of this is fair to this episode or not, it still comes to mind
when I watch it. So it only gets a Decent from me.
> Season Four, Episode 6: "Spin The Bottle"
> I said last time that I didn't really "get" STB. No, it's not
> considered cool to admit something like that when writing about pop-
> art, but I had to express the frustration I was feeling, since Joss's
> episodes generally have a lot beneath the surface, so I knew to look
> for depth, but I wasn't finding it in STB (or WITW). Especially given
> Lorne's ****tentious segments (which actually made me enjoy him for
> once) suggesting it'll be a big episode,
Lorne's narrative reminds me a little of what's being done in BtVS at
roughly the same time - CWDP. Structurally they're quite different, but
just using some kind of partly external structure gives each an aura of
im****tance. Internally, Spin the Bottle is a romp, while CWDP retains the
aura of im****tance.
On the surface I suppose CWDP is the more im****tant episode, what with The
First laying down the gauntlet and Spike revealed as killer. But I think
it's at least arguable that STB matches it underneath. Especially in a
kind
of symbolic way. Through a lightweight Tabula Rasa type of exercise,
illusion gets stripped away. But not nearly so harshly as Tabula Rasa -
though Cordelia going to Connor even with her memories restored does have
to
hurt. It even seems almost easy at the end. Except for that terribly
bleak
narration by Lorne. Why so bleak? At this point in the series, his
narration actually feels a bit out of place. (As does Cordelia's
seemingly
nonsensical abandonment of Angel.)
What we know now points to something very different. The illusions
weren't
removed. Greater ones were begun - kicking off a lengthy run that's all
about nothing we see being real. And memories aren't restored as much as
they're destroyed. Goodbye Cordelia.
Granted, that's not evident at this point in the run. But we're not first
time viewers. We know the implications. The underlying meaning of the
memories theme carries more weight now. Everything changes now. Next
week
might be the announcement of that. But it's made in pure deception - not
really any more informative than STB. This episode is the season's
fulcrum.
About Lorne. I'm a little mixed on the performance. The ghastly
rendition
of Memories doesn't get things off to a good start for me. (Although,
conceptually, it's good to use that song.) I'm not sure it's Joss's best
writing either. A little flat at times, and almost always too obscure for
its own good. Especially when it plays up to the grand deception, as with
what Cordy really saw when she ran off at the end. Andy Hallett, on the
other hand, played the hell out of it for one of his best performances of
the series. I think this also may have been when I started to fully
appreciate Lorne's relation****p with alcohol.
> or at least one whose
> foreshadowing is specific rather than vague. Revisiting the series
> and listening to the commentary only makes me less convinced that
> there's anything there to get. The point very much seems to be "let's
> have Cordelia and Wesley revert to the annoying versions of their
> characters, cuz that'd be fun!
Speaking for myself - it *is* fun.
> Wouldn't it be funny to see Wes fall
> down a lot?" We learn a little about how Fred used to tick, and
> precious little about anyone else. It's indulgence without much
> content to justify it.
It doesn't reveal the way Tabula Rasa does, but then I think this is more
specifically about untainted innocence compared to their messed up real
lives, which are about to get a whole lot more twisted. (Untainted
comparatively. Tough acting Gunn, for example, has surely seen and done a
lot. But then, in real life, he just murdered someone. By today's
standard, he reverted to innocence.) But there are some things that
matter.
Probably most im****tantly, this is the last time you see real Cordelia.
This isn't exactly what Lorne had in mind with the memory spell, but in an
im****tant sense this is restoring her true self - bringing back the memory
of Queen C before her life started getting turned upside down by rebars
through the chest, poverty, PTB visions, demon properties & Jasmine
possession. She may be the best example of the spell actually working.
But
seen that way, the whole group is in the same place.
Angel is also interesting because you see the soul having an impact on him
even without the consuming guilt he usually has. He really doesn't want
to
kill anybody. One probably could use this as one of the numerous
benchmarks
for exploring the effect of soul and demon vampire essence, but I don't
think it's explored far enough to say anything conclusive. Still, I think
it's interesting.
> But, one might ask, is it fair to demand that
> every episode to have something wonderfully meaningful to say rather
> than just being an hour of (sorta) character-driven comedy?
In a Whedon series, the answer normally would be yes.
> Can't we
> just have a moment of levity before the coming storm?
We can have that too. And I think we did.
> Maybe, but I
> don't think it's unfair to ask it to be something more than a
> collection of gags that never really gels into either a story or a
> "Pangs"-style riot. rI still think that STB isn't nearly as clever or
> entertaining as it imagines it must be. I'm not saying it's devoid of
> value, or that it doesn't have a fair amount of amusing moments,
> because it does. So do lots of other TV shows.
Those other TV shows aren't made up of these characters at this moment.
This episode is about Fred unconsciously hitching up her pants 'cause
they're riding too low, and Lorne reaching for the 100 proof because the
world is too hard for his temperament, and best boy Wesley walking around
with a scar on his neck from when he had his throat slit and had his
friends
abandon him. There's a swirl of context and nuance to the episode. It's
not just an abstract set of jokes told by nameless comics. Most of the
humor of Wesley falling down is remembering who he used to be. Next
episode
we'll see him coolly and competently take his shotgun to an invincible
beast. The two scenes go together.
> Rating: Decent
Excellent for me. Not truly the best of the season, but the one I
appreciate the most. It also concludes what's been a pretty good season
start for me - possibly the best of the series.
It's not perfect. I already mentioned disliking the performance of
Memories. I'm also less than keen about Cordy's vision of the Beast at
the
end. You speak of that (and later dream) at the end of this post. For me
it's a particularly cheap misdirect (dishonest may be more accurate) that
fits the ultimate narrative very badly.
> Season Four, Episode 7: "Apocalypse, Nowish"
> I didn't enjoy this show as much last time, or just wasn't as
> impressed with its build-up, or something. Maybe it does come a bit
> too quickly as the winter hiatus approaches too quickly. Nonetheless,
> it is a buildup, and it does almost as well as it can given the time
> frame. We start with juggling our personal problems, and steadily
> progress to some great visuals involving rains of birds and mystical
> symbols on maps. Onward to the Beast, whom I've never much liked,
> even as a proximate villain. It's a monster like every other,
Which is exactly what it's supposed to be, albeit an especially tough
skinned one. (Jasmine presumably knows her monsters.) The point of The
Beast is that he's only ever a tool that our heroes waste their time
da****ng
their selves upon. It itself is a stupid lunk.
The good parts of The Beast this episode aren't so much the monster itself
-
though the big fight is good - are the connection to Connor (rising from
his
birthplace) and the curious way it fails to seriously hurt Connor or
Cordelia.
Also, as an extra level of misdirect, it's initially uncertain that it
necessarily has to be evil. The rain of fire can't be good, but it
doesn't
kill any of our heroes - just fends them off. And then, of course,
there's
next episode when it goes after W&H rather than the good guys or LA in
general.
> so the
> fact that Team Angel (and later W&H) are so ineffectual feels like the
> hand of the script, not the badassery of the Beast.
That doesn't bother me. It's just the means of defining its abilities.
And, again, the more curious part is that it doesn't follow through with
kills. Its general conduct this episode and next is one of the better
clues
that its working for someone else. It seems to be performing pre-planned
missions.
> Here, though, re-
> watching the rooftop fight and watching the DVD featurettes have
> increased my appreciation for how meticulously the fourth act is put
> together. It's one of the big fight scenes of the series, and a lot
> of work went into making it that way. The Beast isn't big enough a
> disaster, though, so we end with *fire raining from the sky*. Whether
> or not one feels it's been "earned" by the previous forty minutes (I
> was doubtful originally, now less so), that's quite a montage.
It sure is - one of my favorite visual moments of the series - especially
the part with Lilah's reflection in the window as she watches the fire
rain
down. I think it's adequately earned too. The degree of it is abrupt,
but
that unexpected quality is part of the drama now and coming. Neither AI
nor
W&H are prepared for this. Least of all - Connor. Everybody's going to
be
behind the curve from here until the season's end. That's the story
starting right now.
> And
> mixing the massive with the personal, that's in part just a backdrop
> for the bigger (to Angel, and to some fans) calamity of Cordelia and
> Connor having ***.
Which I kind of loathe, though that's mitigated by the intensity of Angel
witnessing it amid the rain of fire. Worse for me probably is the
seduction.
> I was never able to figure out what exactly is
> being done, filming- and acting-wise, to make literally every
> interaction between them scream "WRONG!" so universally to all viewers
> (whatever it is, the show wasn't doing it nearly as much in
> "Slouching" and "Supersymmetry"). It has the desired impact.
If you remember, pay attention to the music when they're together as we
move
forward. As I recall, it will develop along with the growing ugliness of
Cordelia's more visible manipulation. Plus, I think they're taking
advantage of the age difference of the actors - perhaps perversely
enhanced
by Charisma's pregnancy.
> Rating: Good (up from Decent)
Begrudgingly I have to rate it Good also. It's a very fine example of the
intense production style of the season that does keep one on the edge of
one's seat. Plus, it has some of my favorite Lilah dressed as Fred and
nervously watching the fire rain down. Then there's this:
Angel: You're trying to hide it. I can smell it on you?
Lilah: Chanel?
Angel: Fear.
Lilah's got her fear back. Oh, it's cropped up the last couple of times
she's run into Angel too. But it really breaks out this episode. I can
practically smell it on her too.
> Season Four, Episode 8: "Habeas Corpses"
> I've been staring at my screen for a few minutes, and I can't think of
> anything to say about this episode. It's a good but not stellar bit
> of destruction that I quite enjoy watching, entertaining enough to
> earn an easy Good in my ratings. Even if my attention wanders a
> little during the darkened-corridor sequences. Um... I adore the first
> Wesley/Lilah scene, a lot. "Funny thing about black and white: you
> mix it together and you get gray. And it doesn't matter how much
> white you try and put back in, you're never gonna get anything but
> gray. And I don't see your Texas gal pal wearing that color. Come to
> think of it, she prefers black." Gavin Park gets one of the less
> dignified death scenes of recurring characters.
I like the surprise/implication factor of The Beast going after W&H - and
the way it gives the lie to Lilah's assertion that W&H is the best place
to
be in an Apocalypse. I like the White Room scene. I like Gavin's fate.
And I like most everything to do with Wesley and Lilah. (I guess dressing
up as Fred wasn't that great an idea. Just fed his obsession.) Probably
a
few other things I'm not remembering right now.
I didn't really care for most of the destruction and fighting at W&H. A
lot
of running around and dull foot thumps and leaning on doors and really
dull
zombies. After the precision and even beauty of last episode's mayhem,
this
seems like a bunch of noise. I'm not too keen - and a little confused -
about Cordelia. (More in a moment.) Although I like most of the early
Lilah/Wesley scene, I'm not much taken with his rationale for breaking up.
The black and white, good and evil stuff rings hollow to me. Or maybe I'm
just not getting it. Does Wesley actually believe what he's saying?
> Okay, this bit was going to go into the general thoughts at the end,
> but that's too long and the entry for HC was too short, so... The
> seemingly unwieldy story of Pod!Cordy's
I forgot to mention how the pod people reference last episode makes me
laugh.
> motivations mostly holds
> together for me, but there are two things she does that don't make
> total sense to me, a major one and a minor one. The major one is
> cited by many people as a big honking source of confusion, and I'll
> talk about it in the next thread. The minor one comes in this
> episode. Most of the way she manipulates Connor is pretty clear,
> albeit really really slow, but I've never understood why she "tries"
> to leave him this episode. What does she stand to gain by doing
> this? She figures he wouldn't buy it if she fell into his bed too
> readily? A fiendish plan to make him want her more? She thinks she's
> done with him once she's harvested his gametes, and is only driven to
> really recruit him after Angel doesn't fall in line? Or, uh,
> something? Like I said, I don't get it.
I think there are a number of little confusing things during this period -
which may be a contributing cause to Charisma's less than consistent
performance. One thing this episode, for example, is the way she wakes up
next to Connor and looks at him with surprised shock and realization of
what
they did the night before. It's a moment that plays as pure Cordelia -
and
doesn't make a lot of sense as Jasmine. (Connor can't see her, so she
doesn't need to put on a performance.)
I suspect that the writers still weren't certain how exactly this was
going
to work and to what extent actual Cordy remained. I fear that the writers
were determined to maintain the illusion even when it sacrificed
continuity.
Either way it answers your question in the sense of there not being a good
answer. I'm not aware of a satisfying fanwank for it either.
> Rating: Good
The episode's OK. But it'll have to settle for Decent.
> Getting back to the show itself, let's talk a little bit more about
> Jasmine and Cordelia. It's hard to pinpoint exactly when our Power
> That Was first infiltrates and to what extent the control becomes
> complete. Some people have gone as far back as "Birthday."
Skip suggests that the manipulation goes back at least as far as City
Of...,
though not direct possession.
> I prefer
> to keep Cordelia as herself for as long as possible, because
> otherwise, what's the point of all the time the show spends on her?
> Her behavior in S3 rings perfectly true to me (with regard to the
> demon powers, anyway. Not barbarian warriors), so I'm fine to take
> the show at its implication that the evil entered her on the higher
> plane. The spell in "Spin The Bottle" is said to be what awakened
> Jasmine, so I'm fine with that as a cutoff - before then it's Cordy,
> after that it's not. Some people point to bits of Cordelia-esque or
> Jasmine-esque behavior at other times to suggest some kind of shared
> influence, but I don't see what that would add to the story.
Since the mechanics are never really explained, we're left imagining the
gaps. I choose Birthday as start of possession, but not exactly control.
Cordelia remains Cordelia mentally, but she has new weird powers that seem
to pop up on their own. For whatever reason, Jasmine can't take complete
control without the steps between then and Spin the Bottle.
I like that approach because:
A) The conspiracy clearly involves Skip, and Birthday is when he first
"changes" Cordelia.
B) It explains why her S3 powers didn't seem to be in Cordelia's control.
They were really Jasmine's powers - and Jasmine wasn't letting go of them.
Of particular note, it explains why the visions didn't work the same way
they did for Doyle.
C) The PTB are being abruptly pushed out of the picture. The idea of
ascending Cordelia always seemed a stretch - especially the way Skip sold
it
to her like some kind of grifter. And surely they wouldn't want Jasmine
taking over. Jasmine is acting pre-emptively, and one of the things she'd
want to do is to block the PTB's access to Cordelia while her game was
afoot. She probably has the power to do that while possessing Cordelia
with
the PTB far away. Hell, the PTB might not even know about the ascension.
It didn't seem like Cordelia was spending any time with them.
D) Jasmine would also want to protect the body being prepared for her.
That would explain the protective white glow. (Jasmine glowed too.)
E) A key S3 moment setting up this season is when Cordelia gave Connor
his
"soul colonic". (Again through unbidden white glowy magic from Cordy.)
It
makes a whole lot of sense in the greater story for Jasmine to have been
responsible for that - to have planted the seed for their later
connection.
Cordelia wouldn't know anything about this though, and would have complete
control of her mind and, usually, her body. So her character would remain
pure Cordelia throughout S3.
> This leads to a few questions, though. For instance, "Apocalypse,
> Nowish" opens with Cordelia having a nightmare in which she discusses
> being unable to articulate what she's feeling before being attacked.
> Why would the series be showing us this if she's already fully under a
> demon's control? One possible answer is that this represents the real
> Cordy, as an independently conscious being, watching everything that
> goes on for the rest of the year while kicking and screaming. That
> interpretation is sorta sup****ted by a line in "You're Welcome." And
> it also feels more twisted and ****ed up the more I think about it, so
> it'll be my preferred explanation.
I like that explanation too. Alas, I don't really believe it in my heart.
OBS
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