"Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsmtsm@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:ee88a833-4b61-4b57-bc36-b6f5393516b0@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Mar 20, 12:20 am, "One Bit Shy" <O...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
>>
messagenews:69b6d98c-af74-433b-a09c-787cbb3e94ea@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>> > Meanwhile, Acker gets a good chance to
>> > show off her versatility - and Fred's - as she gets a chance to pay
>> > back the bastard who ruined her life. Wesley comes off very well as
>> > Fred's matter-of-fact enabler, aware of the consequences but leaving
>> > her to make the decisions.
>>
>> He comes off well? Hmmm. I'd say that he certainly played to Fred's
>> mood
>> and desires. To the extent that's respectful of her free will is to
the
>> same extent that he's enabling her poor decisions. Wesley is walking
>> some
>> tricky moral and ethical ground here. That matter of fact balancing of
>> consequences (which comes off more as token acknowledgment so that it
can
>> be
>> dismissed) looks an awful lot like helping to bring Fred down to his
>> level
>> of making dubious (and brutal) hard decisions. Meanwhile, it sure is
>> convenient for him that it's the way back into Fred's good graces. (At
>> least seemingly.) Aside from still having a thing for, she had shut
the
>> door on him at least as hard as had Angel. And, well, he's performed
his
>> penance to Angel. Fred's the obstacle.
>
> Yeah, it does sound self-serving when you put it that way, doesn't
> it? Thing is, if given the choice between Gunn's ultimately
> patronizing attitude and Wesley's twisted Watcher routine, one can see
> why Fred would prefer the help of someone who understands what she's
> going through and what she's capable of. His attempt to warn her
> about what she's getting into is well taken, even if it's token.
Oh, sure. And her motives weren't all that clean either. She wanted
somebody to help her murder a guy. She doesn't think Gunn is up to that.
But she thinks Wesley is. In context, that's not exactly a compliment to
Wesley. It's not just his brains and books that she wants. It's also his
perceived amorality. And sure enough, he gives her exactly what she
wants.
It's really a bit twisted for both of them. Which may be part of why they
can't really work a romance until after the Connor spell purges much of
their guilt.
>> Granted, that's not evident at this point in the run. But we're not
>> first
>> time viewers. We know the implications. The underlying meaning of the
>> memories theme carries more weight now. Everything changes now. Next
>> week
>> might be the announcement of that. But it's made in pure deception -
not
>> really any more informative than STB. This episode is the season's
>> fulcrum.
>
> Where is this weight of which you speak? Lorne's narration is a
> deliberately jarring bit of tone, but otherwise, what do you have?
> Things weren't as they seemed with Cordelia before STB and aren't
> afterward. The characters had come a long way from their roots before
> STB and are in the same places afterward. The episode continues to
> feel more like a detour (not an especially substantial one, but that's
> a separate topic) than a fulcrum.
There are two primary events. The memory spell waking Jasmine up and
Wesley
effectively returning to the fold. We didn't know about the former,
though
now we do in retrospect. In combination they create the impression of a
broken AI restored. Cordelia's herself again and Wesley's back. But in
truth it's a kind of crumbling of the old. Gunn and Fred start fighting -
heading to breakup. Wesley only adds to that dissension, while showing
himself to be nothing like Wesley of old. Cordelia not only isn't back,
but
is effectively destroyed as the possessed body leaves the premises and
makes
real what had previously seemed an accidental relation****p with Connor.
The
all-around mess is largely established here, but more clearly announced
next
episode.
>> I didn't really care for most of the destruction and fighting at W&H.
A
>> lot
>> of running around and dull foot thumps and leaning on doors and really
>> dull
>> zombies. After the precision and even beauty of last episode's mayhem,
>> this
>> seems like a bunch of noise. I'm not too keen - and a little confused
-
>> about Cordelia. (More in a moment.) Although I like most of the early
>> Lilah/Wesley scene, I'm not much taken with his rationale for breaking
>> up.
>> The black and white, good and evil stuff rings hollow to me. Or maybe
>> I'm
>> just not getting it. Does Wesley actually believe what he's saying?
>
> I'm not big on that aspect either, actually, despite how great a scene
> it is. My answer at the moment to "does he actually believe what he's
> saying" would be that I doubt it, but he wishes he could. He stated
> worldview gets more loudly black and white when he's on uncertain
> footing. Late-ATS Wesley is interesting to me in part because I don't
> always understand what he's thinking, though. I came into S4
> expecting him to have given up and/or no longer care, but in fact, he
> never goes there.
I tend to opt for it really being about chasing after Fred. He's just
unwilling to admit that to Lilah. So he baffles her with bull****.
>> > Okay, this bit was going to go into the general thoughts at the end,
>> > but that's too long and the entry for HC was too short, so... The
>> > seemingly unwieldy story of Pod!Cordy's
>>
>> I forgot to mention how the pod people reference last episode makes me
>> laugh.
>
> Now, I've actually seen a movie called _Pod People_ (it was the basis
> for one of my favorite episodes of _Mystery Science Theater 3000_),
> and it's not about possession. As one character summarizes, that
> movie has nothing to do with either pods or people. When I mentioned
> this last time, Scythe responded with "thankfully, Mutant Enemy
> writers never slip subtextually interesting details into the
> background of episodes." Cordy can only watch from here...
Ah, Scythe sure could be dry sometimes.
> [Cordelia's behavior]
>> > Or, uh,
>> > something? Like I said, I don't get it.
>>
>> I think there are a number of little confusing things during this
>> period -
>> which may be a contributing cause to Charisma's less than consistent
>> performance.
>
> She's not the best actor on the show, but I do have to wonder how much
> the writers told her about what was going on and how much she had to
> kinda guess what was called for. I wish I could explain away all of
> Cordelia's "off" moments in AN and HC as deliberate, but then you move
> on to the next disc and there are continued efforts to make her speech
> patterns and delivery be a close facsimile of real-Cordy. So it's
> more likely that things simply weren't clicking on a scripting level
> with the attempts at emotional turmoil and apparent heartfelt
> speeches.
The first time I rewatched this season I was specifically trying to see if
you could tell from Cordelia's behavior just when Jasmine took over. The
exercise proved futile. Though it sure seems to have generated a fanwank
heaven.
OBS
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