On Apr 18, 8:54=A0pm, "One Bit Shy" <O...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
messagenews:72d1efbd-=
52b9-4685-92e9-65bcf725d2fa@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > On Apr 16, 12:02 am, "One Bit Shy" <O...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
> >>
messagenews:4cdb5302-bf6f-4392-a100-8bc04815235b@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> There's not enough Connor here - or in any of the surrounding
episodes =
-
> >> for
> >> him to really get in the way (plus we get his first knocking around
by
> >> Faith), but I'll note that just about every second he's on the screen
> >> annoys
> >> me. =A0As he does in all the episodes on this disk and going back
some =
in
> >> the
> >> prior disk. =A0Just seeing his smug face gets me muttering.
>
> > I simply don't have the visceral reaction to Connor that some do,
> > although I kinda understand it on an intellectual level at this point
> > in the series (not so much elsewhere). =A0Fortunately, he tends to be
at=
> > his most annoying in episodes in which he's not central enough to be
> > more than a nagging background thing.
>
> Hangover continues even after Jasmine appears, but at least it's heading
f=
or
> a conclusion as things become a little more clearly about Connor.
=A0There=
are
> some better acting opportunities too.
I've been impressed with Kartheiser as an actor, except for a few
moments during the Angelus period, and so have a few of the anti-
Connor commenters. It was a little vindicating seeing his new show do
so well (although he's again playing insufferably smug and self-
absorbed but somehow a little sympathetic).
> >> > I joked that I've been saving up as many fanwanking points as
possibl=
e
> >> > so I can spend them all here. =A0The best most people can come up
wit=
h
> >> > is distraction.
>
> >> The best I have in-story is that Jasmine screwed up. =A0First by not
> >> realizing
> >> how strongly independent and effective Angelus would be as a free
agent=
..
> >> She assumed he would be easier to control. =A0Then by not taking
Willow=
> >> into
> >> account. =A0She progressively lost control of the situation and fell
ba=
ck
> >> to
> >> plan B - just barely successful. =A0The unknown is what her original
in=
tent
> >> was. =A0But let me come back to that. =A0I think you've
underestimated =
the
> >> scope
> >> of that question.
>
> > Well, that's almost neater than my version, innit? =A0"She had an
> > elaborate plan that didn't work out; now, moving on..."
>
> That's pretty much it. =A0Neater maybe, but satisfactory?
>
> >> > Keep everyone else running around in circles during
> >> > the few weeks it takes to have herself as a baby. =A0I'll go a step
> >> > further in the same direction. =A0Rightly or wrongly, Jasmine has
> >> > fixated on Angel as her greatest enemy, the world's champion.
=A0One
> >> > she's born, he'll be harmless, but until then, he's the threat.
=A0Sh=
e
> >> > knows that she can't hide the fact of her pregnancy from him
forever.=
> >> > And - here's the crux of this argument - she knows for an absolute
> >> > fact that he will find out quickly, and upon doing so, he will
> >> > recognize that the birth is an evil thing, and he will stop it.
=A0Ma=
ke
> >> > it mystical instinct if necessary. =A0Her solution is to do
whatever =
it
> >> > takes to get him under her control, or, failing that, at least get
hi=
m
> >> > out of the world-saving picture (in a way that also ties his
sidekick=
s
> >> > up). =A0Molding Connor into her champion and going into hiding is
pla=
n
> >> > B, which helps her get through the last few days, but only barely.
=
=A0It
> >> > wouldn't have been enough had she not kept Angel away until then.
>
> >> > This is fanwank, and clearly so. =A0But what matters is that it's
eno=
ugh
> >> > to satisfy my narrative sense and let me, personally, get past what
> >> > would otherwise be the biggest hiccup in my enjoyment of
re-watching
> >> > Season Four. =A0Any irritation left over when things don't fit can
be=
> >> > transferred to the Jasmine episodes, which I don't like so much,
> >> > without tainting my appreciation of the run leading to favorites
like=
> >> > "Orpheus" and "Inside Out."
>
> >> OK. =A0Here's the thing for me. =A0It's not just Angel and Angelus.
=A0=
It's the
> >> Beast and rain of fire and blotting out the sun too. =A0What does
*any*=
of
> >> it
> >> accomplish other than alerting people that trouble's coming? =A0The
onl=
y
> >> thing
> >> I know of is the destruction of W&H. =A0I suppose that's kind of big,
b=
ut
> >> that
> >> only requires the Beast without the other flash/bang, and could be
done=
> >> with
> >> one strike, without making the Beast a player in anything else at
all.
> >> Indeed, it would/should look like trouble W&H brewed up on its own
rath=
er
> >> than trouble for Angel and team.
>
> > The characters conclude that all the early stuff - the rain of fire,
> > the sunblock, etc. - was orchestrated to let Cordelia lead the others
> > to de-soul Angel. =A0Do we agree with them? =A0We've already discussed
t=
he
> > weaknesses inherent in that plan as far as getting from point A to
> > point Angelus, but if we take its success as a given, the only
> > explanation still needed is the reason she's so obsessed with Angel.
> > Which is what I take my best crack at above.
>
> Accepting the first part as given is pretty big to swallow. =A0Some
we've
> discussed. =A0I also get the impression when Cordelia talks to the Beast
t=
hat
> what Angelus is crucial to then (after Angelus is created) is tied into
> whatever the Beast is doing. =A0That creates the circular logic that the
B=
east
> is critical to Angelus who's critical to the Beast. =A0Be that as it
may, =
all
> of it is pretty vague. =A0We're mostly making stuff up because the show
wo=
n't
> tell us anything other than letting us think (mostly assume even here)
tha=
t
> it somehow has something to do with birthing Jasmine.
>
>=A0I'm sort of kidding when I suggest that maybe she just wanted
> some beastly nookie while she was stuck in Cordy's body. =A0But you
know, =
the
> show kind of tossed that idea out there too with the give me sugar
scene.
> Doesn't it feel like the show is just tossing everything against the
wall
> for the sake of confusion? =A0I really don't think there's an answer.
That particular scene sticks out like... something that sticks out
inappropriately (I don't like the usual turn of phrase). I don't
really draw much beyond that except that a story this elaborate is
prone to accumulate some dead-ends and misfires.
With regard to your musing about nothing mattering and truth being
elusive, I resist it somewhat not because it doesn't make sense, but
just because it's unsatisfying. I enjoy the play of S4 more than you
do, so I don't want to settle for neater but unsatisfying. I'm fine
to throw that at the episodes I don't care about, or ocassionally try
to see that as a theme in how Connor percieves the world. For me,
that basically comes down to coming up with a reason for why Angel is
so important to Pod!Cordelia, and my bit of fanwanking lets me
accomplish that. Once that one ingredient is fitted into place, the
rest of the story really doesn't have enough gaps to irritate me too
badly.
> BtVS S7 hasn't fared very well for me on rewatch either. =A0I'm probably
m=
ost
> critical of that season, which I consider to be the weakest of its seven
> year run. =A0It does have the virtue of a very satisfying conclusion to
th=
e
> season and series though. =A0And a few other attributes. =A0AtS S4 has
> attributes too. =A0Not as many though. =A0And only a partially
satisfactor=
y
> ending.
My highly scientific rating system says that "Home" is a better
episode than "Chosen," and I'm sticking with that.
-AOQ
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