On Mar 20, 12:20 am, "One Bit Shy" <O...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
messagenews:69b6d98c-af74-433b-a09c-787cbb3e94ea@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Meanwhile, Acker gets a good chance to
> > show off her versatility - and Fred's - as she gets a chance to pay
> > back the bastard who ruined her life. Wesley comes off very well as
> > Fred's matter-of-fact enabler, aware of the consequences but leaving
> > her to make the decisions.
>
> He comes off well? Hmmm. I'd say that he certainly played to Fred's
mood
> and desires. To the extent that's respectful of her free will is to the
> same extent that he's enabling her poor decisions. Wesley is walking
some
> tricky moral and ethical ground here. That matter of fact balancing of
> consequences (which comes off more as token acknowledgment so that it
can be
> dismissed) looks an awful lot like helping to bring Fred down to his
level
> of making dubious (and brutal) hard decisions. Meanwhile, it sure is
> convenient for him that it's the way back into Fred's good graces. (At
> least seemingly.) Aside from still having a thing for, she had shut the
> door on him at least as hard as had Angel. And, well, he's performed
his
> penance to Angel. Fred's the obstacle.
Yeah, it does sound self-serving when you put it that way, doesn't
it? Thing is, if given the choice between Gunn's ultimately
patronizing attitude and Wesley's twisted Watcher routine, one can see
why Fred would prefer the help of someone who understands what she's
going through and what she's capable of. His attempt to warn her
about what she's getting into is well taken, even if it's token.
> It's a little early to really get into the Cordy/Connor thing, but I
might
> as well get it out of the way now. I've been torn sometimes about how
> creepy it really is. Charisma Carpenter and Vincent Kartheiser together
is
> always unsettling. But in-story, the age difference isn't really that
> large.
As I'm not the first person to point out, it's nowhere near the age
difference between Cordelia and Angel.
> Second is the ending of Gunn/Fred. (Not official yet, but pretty much a
> done deal.) Now this isn't so bad. Indeed, the emotional drama of it
works
> very well, and will continue to be well used furthering multiple
characters
> and situations. It's just a shame that this little corner of happiness
had
> to be ripped from the series. Not just for itself - though breakfast
with
> Fred and Gunn sure was nice, whether at the diner or pancake kiss in bed
-
> but because it held at bay a little the bleakness of the series.
I understand missing the relief from what can be an oppressive period
to some viewers (a totally unrelated topic elsewhere on the Internets
gave rise to emphasizing the difference between "dark" and "bleak,"
which might be useful for adjective choices). In this case, I'm
willing to give it up for the way everyone starts to fall apart
personally after Angel goes evil. The dysfunctionality of the ATS
family will synchronize well with everything else going to hell, and
help the season be successful in its big task of maintaining ever
constant/rising tension without getting monotonous.
> Lorne's narrative reminds me a little of what's being done in BtVS at
> roughly the same time - CWDP. Structurally they're quite different, but
> just using some kind of partly external structure gives each an aura of
> im****tance. Internally, Spin the Bottle is a romp, while CWDP retains
the
> aura of im****tance.
>
> On the surface I suppose CWDP is the more im****tant episode, what with
The
> First laying down the gauntlet and Spike revealed as killer. But I
think
> it's at least arguable that STB matches it underneath. Especially in a
kind
> of symbolic way. Through a lightweight Tabula Rasa type of exercise,
> illusion gets stripped away. But not nearly so harshly as Tabula Rasa -
> though Cordelia going to Connor even with her memories restored does
have to
> hurt. It even seems almost easy at the end. Except for that terribly
bleak
> narration by Lorne. Why so bleak? At this point in the series, his
> narration actually feels a bit out of place. (As does Cordelia's
seemingly
> nonsensical abandonment of Angel.)
>
> What we know now points to something very different. The illusions
weren't
> removed. Greater ones were begun - kicking off a lengthy run that's all
> about nothing we see being real. And memories aren't restored as much
as
> they're destroyed. Goodbye Cordelia.
>
> Granted, that's not evident at this point in the run. But we're not
first
> time viewers. We know the implications. The underlying meaning of the
> memories theme carries more weight now. Everything changes now. Next
week
> might be the announcement of that. But it's made in pure deception -
not
> really any more informative than STB. This episode is the season's
fulcrum.
Where is this weight of which you speak? Lorne's narration is a
deliberately jarring bit of tone, but otherwise, what do you have?
Things weren't as they seemed with Cordelia before STB and aren't
afterward. The characters had come a long way from their roots before
STB and are in the same places afterward. The episode continues to
feel more like a detour (not an especially substantial one, but that's
a separate topic) than a fulcrum.
> I didn't really care for most of the destruction and fighting at W&H. A
lot
> of running around and dull foot thumps and leaning on doors and really
dull
> zombies. After the precision and even beauty of last episode's mayhem,
this
> seems like a bunch of noise. I'm not too keen - and a little confused -
> about Cordelia. (More in a moment.) Although I like most of the early
> Lilah/Wesley scene, I'm not much taken with his rationale for breaking
up.
> The black and white, good and evil stuff rings hollow to me. Or maybe
I'm
> just not getting it. Does Wesley actually believe what he's saying?
I'm not big on that aspect either, actually, despite how great a scene
it is. My answer at the moment to "does he actually believe what he's
saying" would be that I doubt it, but he wishes he could. He stated
worldview gets more loudly black and white when he's on uncertain
footing. Late-ATS Wesley is interesting to me in part because I don't
always understand what he's thinking, though. I came into S4
expecting him to have given up and/or no longer care, but in fact, he
never goes there.
> > Okay, this bit was going to go into the general thoughts at the end,
> > but that's too long and the entry for HC was too short, so... The
> > seemingly unwieldy story of Pod!Cordy's
>
> I forgot to mention how the pod people reference last episode makes me
> laugh.
Now, I've actually seen a movie called _Pod People_ (it was the basis
for one of my favorite episodes of _Mystery Science Theater 3000_),
and it's not about possession. As one character summarizes, that
movie has nothing to do with either pods or people. When I mentioned
this last time, Scythe responded with "thankfully, Mutant Enemy
writers never slip subtextually interesting details into the
background of episodes." Cordy can only watch from here...
[Cordelia's behavior]
> > Or, uh,
> > something? Like I said, I don't get it.
>
> I think there are a number of little confusing things during this period
-
> which may be a contributing cause to Charisma's less than consistent
> performance.
She's not the best actor on the show, but I do have to wonder how much
the writers told her about what was going on and how much she had to
kinda guess what was called for. I wish I could explain away all of
Cordelia's "off" moments in AN and HC as deliberate, but then you move
on to the next disc and there are continued efforts to make her speech
patterns and delivery be a close facsimile of real-Cordy. So it's
more likely that things simply weren't clicking on a scripting level
with the attempts at emotional turmoil and apparent heartfelt
speeches.
-AOQ
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