On Apr 16, 12:02 am, "One Bit Shy" <O...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> "Arbitrar Of Quality" <tsm...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
messagenews:4cdb5302-bf6f-4392-a100-8bc04815235b@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> I think what I like best about this episode is it concludes with Angelus
> taking charge of the situation. For 3 episodes running, Angelus has
> actually lived up to his reputation of being formidable, if not quite
for
> being blood thirsty. He's now undermined the unknown master (Jasmine)
and
> the AI team both quite effectively. He almost got Faith too -
impressive
> quick thinking by her barely preventing it. For a brief moment Angelus
is a
> genuine 3rd major player in the mix that could turn everything upside
down.
Adds to the chaos. And I'm always rooting for him whenever evil goes
up against evil, because he's an aspect of our main character - he
should be formidable. He shouldn't play second fiddle to a villain
called "the Beastmaster."
> There's not enough Connor here - or in any of the surrounding episodes -
for
> him to really get in the way (plus we get his first knocking around by
> Faith), but I'll note that just about every second he's on the screen
annoys
> me. As he does in all the episodes on this disk and going back some in
the
> prior disk. Just seeing his smug face gets me muttering.
I simply don't have the visceral reaction to Connor that some do,
although I kinda understand it on an intellectual level at this point
in the series (not so much elsewhere). Fortunately, he tends to be at
his most annoying in episodes in which he's not central enough to be
more than a nagging background thing.
> > Season Four, Episode 14: "Release"
> > This is also a story that
> > will incor****ate a lot being done with subtle glances and the notion
> > of blame, Wesley fully throwing himself into the part of the dark
> > Watcher and Faith making the choice to follow his path against her
> > "best nature," and the image of Faith on the ground before Angel
> > again, this time begging to live. In short, this is some deep ****.
>
> Dark watcher indeed. This is just about as low as Wesley gets for me.
(I
> don't mean that I disapprove of the story. I love the drama of it.)
The
> way he manipulates Faith by recalling her torture is rather appalling.
(He
> doesn't really care anymore. After having his throat slit and then
> abandoned by his friends - well, the Faith history is comparatively
trivial
> to him.) The way he achieves his ends works, but how he does it...
well,
> I'll come back to this in Oprheus.
>
> It's still good for Faith though. There's some nice setup for her
story's
> conclusion - having Angelus compare himself to her just as Angel once
did.
> And in this brief connection with Wesley, no matter how twisted it might
be,
> she gets her moment as a true Slayer.
There was a little bit of discussion last time about whether this is
the closest we get to a traditional Slayer/Watcher team, in all its
potency and all its mutual destructiveness. Here in L.A., so far
removed from that other TV show whose mythology it belongs to. It's
fascinating.
> I'll just repeat that in retrospect, many of the gaps in Release get
filled
> in by Orpheus, revealing more content than one gets on first view. I
agree
> that it's not the best way to do it, but it still improves the episode
next
> time around for me [snip] You seem to have raised the rating too. I
don't know
> if that's the reason.
Not really.
> > Special mention for one of the single least convincing uses
> > of a blue/green screen in Buffyverse history during the shower scene,
> > although it'll soon be topped by the end of "Sacrifice."
>
> What are you referring to?
Most of the falling water clearly isn't touching Faith, since it
exists in a dimension that she is not in. It's a little
embarrassing. Not quite as much so as when Angel first pops up in the
demon dimension and is a different brightness than everything else,
like in a cheap fake celebrity photo, but still bad.
> The dialogue sparkles, and we learn a lot about
> > Angel from finally filling in the last big gaps in his history.
>
> Other than WWII Angel.... OK, so maybe that wasn't a big gap. Only goes
to
> show how fantastic this episode's history is.
I wondered a little bit about what Angel was like after first coming
to America, and spend a lot of time questioning out loud what finally
drove him into that alley. Angel's story was obviously incomplete;
now it's not. I can't say that I ever once, in any capacity pre- or
post-"Orpheus" thought to myself "hey, I really wonder what Angel was
up to during WWII. And while I'm thinking about this, the Initiative
were so interesting that it'd be nice to find out how they got
started. This is a tale that's demanding to be told!"
> Connor and Cordelia have clumsy aspects to. Aside from Connor generally
> annoying me, here is also the period where Cordelia's manipulations
start
> being so clumsy, obvious and ill considered that one had difficulty
> imagining Connor continuing to go with them. (Although I do at least
like
> the concept of Connor being ****ed with again by being sent to kill his
> father. It's necessary for his greater story.)
They're in a holding pattern in their scenes together for too long.
There's not enough story there to make it Connor's main arc for this
long.
> > Okay, it's time for a big bit of hand-waving. We're told that
>
> > everything Pod!Cordy does was for the single-minded purpose of getting
> > Angel de-souled. Well, *why*? How does this contribute to arranging
> > for giving birth, especially since Good Angel returning doesn't seem
> > to make much of a difference?
> > Why not just, oh, say, keep a low
> > profile?
> > I joked that I've been saving up as many fanwanking points as possible
> > so I can spend them all here. The best most people can come up with
> > is distraction.
>
> The best I have in-story is that Jasmine screwed up. First by not
realizing
> how strongly independent and effective Angelus would be as a free agent.
> She assumed he would be easier to control. Then by not taking Willow
into
> account. She progressively lost control of the situation and fell back
to
> plan B - just barely successful. The unknown is what her original
intent
> was. But let me come back to that. I think you've underestimated the
scope
> of that question.
Well, that's almost neater than my version, innit? "She had an
elaborate plan that didn't work out; now, moving on..."
> > Keep everyone else running around in circles during
> > the few weeks it takes to have herself as a baby. I'll go a step
> > further in the same direction. Rightly or wrongly, Jasmine has
> > fixated on Angel as her greatest enemy, the world's champion. One
> > she's born, he'll be harmless, but until then, he's the threat. She
> > knows that she can't hide the fact of her pregnancy from him forever.
> > And - here's the crux of this argument - she knows for an absolute
> > fact that he will find out quickly, and upon doing so, he will
> > recognize that the birth is an evil thing, and he will stop it. Make
> > it mystical instinct if necessary. Her solution is to do whatever it
> > takes to get him under her control, or, failing that, at least get him
> > out of the world-saving picture (in a way that also ties his sidekicks
> > up). Molding Connor into her champion and going into hiding is plan
> > B, which helps her get through the last few days, but only barely. It
> > wouldn't have been enough had she not kept Angel away until then.
>
> The pregnancy, as we know, is brief. Going low profile would have been
as
> simple as telling Angel that she needs a couple weeks to work this out
on
> her own, and then taking off to Death Valley or something (with Connor
in
> tow if she wants). It wouldn't be the first time that she's taken time
off.
This time it wouldn't work; the reason I'm trying to fanwank is that
this needs to be true (or Cordy needs to believe it, anyway) for the
story to make sense. He won't let her disappear entirely for too long
(in this case, the fact that she's been popping in and out might make
him less willing than ever to let her out of his extended sight), and
she won't be able to hide her pregnancy. Again, make it mystical
instinct if necessary - he'll feel it. Or instead run with Michael's
interesting premise that Angel is a central figure in Pod!Cordy's
world because of how the real Cordelia sees him.
> > This is fanwank, and clearly so. But what matters is that it's enough
> > to satisfy my narrative sense and let me, personally, get past what
> > would otherwise be the biggest hiccup in my enjoyment of re-watching
> > Season Four. Any irritation left over when things don't fit can be
> > transferred to the Jasmine episodes, which I don't like so much,
> > without tainting my appreciation of the run leading to favorites like
> > "Orpheus" and "Inside Out."
>
> OK. Here's the thing for me. It's not just Angel and Angelus. It's
the
> Beast and rain of fire and blotting out the sun too. What does *any* of
it
> accomplish other than alerting people that trouble's coming? The only
thing
> I know of is the destruction of W&H. I suppose that's kind of big, but
that
> only requires the Beast without the other flash/bang, and could be done
with
> one strike, without making the Beast a player in anything else at all.
> Indeed, it would/should look like trouble W&H brewed up on its own
rather
> than trouble for Angel and team.
The characters conclude that all the early stuff - the rain of fire,
the sunblock, etc. - was orchestrated to let Cordelia lead the others
to de-soul Angel. Do we agree with them? We've already discussed the
weaknesses inherent in that plan as far as getting from point A to
point Angelus, but if we take its success as a given, the only
explanation still needed is the reason she's so obsessed with Angel.
Which is what I take my best crack at above.
Other possible rationalizations for the Beast, although not
particularly strong ones for me, come from the line about "birthing
pains" in SHP, and from the idea that it'll improve Jasmine's image if
she sends the Beast away (yeah, that's a real essential tool for
someone who can fill people with overwhelming love for her just by
being in the same room. Although as Michael points out, it could be a
backup for if her power doesn't grow as quickly as hoped).
> This is a core problem with the season for me. There's no purpose to
most
> of it until Jasmine finally is born. And then she proves to be more
> annoying than just about anybody - maybe even Connor. It's a whole
bunch of
> noise signifying nothing. Even the Knights of Byzantium, who existed
pretty
> much to take the fates lined up against Buffy to the level of absurdity,
> made more sense than the lead up to Jasmine.
Okay, now here's where I'm at. One thing I've always tried to do, and
run into occassional resistance for doing, is treat the episodes as
individual building blocks that can be evaluated semi-autonomously on
the rubric of "is this entertaining television?" I do this because I
strongly believe that a good buildup isn't automatically negated by
what comes later, any more than a crappy sequel retroactively makes a
movie or book less good. The fact that something is an episode of a
TV series or a volume in a trilogy or whatever is only somewhat
relevant - it's still presented as a discrete piece. Here the fact
that it's not paid off properly doesn't undo the fact that there's
some great drama - something you obviously somewhat buy into given the
string of Goods and Excellents. If it wasn't solid work, then I'd be
more inclined to spend lots of viewing time saying "it feels like the
writers are making this up as the go along. Is this ever going to
make sense?" I would then enjoy these episodes less, and assign them
more "blame" for the unwieldiness of the arc. I don't, and that
includes re-watching. That's the difference that matters most to me.
(Incidentally, ATS4 compares favorably to BTVS7 in that regard, for
me.)
-AOQ
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