On Mar 20, 8:41 pm, "Peahen" <peahen1...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> "ellen" <epdps...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>
>
news:cb222b53-fbd6-4265-bec6-e02508591979@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > you all have probably caught this one already, but since it just came
> > to my attention, i'll toss it out. it's a bit long, but classic. i
> > think it is authentic, but we never know, do we?
>
>
>http://thinkonthesethings.wordpress.com/2008/02/06/video-interviewer-...
>
> > his emotional response, that you can access from that link, is also
> > quite good & moving, as he talks about his background, democracy, etc.
>
> > i will always be cynical.
> > i will always want to believe.
>
> > ellen
>
> Interesting. I had read his commentary on CNN.com, but I hadn't seen
the
> videos. I, too, am a cynic who wants to believe. This young man is
> impressive.
>
> I listened to Obama's speech on unity, and was again much moved. I
would so
> like to have a leader who can speak in paragraphs again (and Obama does
so
> much more than that). I'm afraid, though, that typical voters won't
have
> heard or seen the speech, and if they had, that so many won't have heard
> what I heard in that speech. I'm married to a lapsed Catholic, but
still a
> staunch Catholic who would never leave his church even though he
recognizes
> so much of the wrong done within the Church, and even though he does not
> agree with all the tenants of the Church.
>
> I myself am an agnostic, more so now than before, so I don't much listen
to
> preachers, priests, rabbis, or any other organized religious leader,
since I
> think I can form my own opinions, and, in my humble opinion, since my
views
> are much more humanistic and inclusive than most believers in organized
> religion. But I can't color all believers with the same brush. I
> disappointed my in-laws when I wouldn't convert. It wasn't that I was
> agnostic then; it was simply because I couldn't convert knowing very
well
> that I planned to take birth control and believe in pro-choice. My
> sisters-in-law, baptized as babies, had no compunction about going
against
> the tenants to practice birth control. I suppose it's a stretch to
equate
> birth control with Wright's sound bites, but it's just another example
of
> people not always agreeing with religious leaders but staying with their
> Church anyway.
>
> I have to note that my in-laws are all strong, conservative Republicans
with
> whom I most generally disagree, but do not voice my dissent for the sake
of
> peace (believe me, when my husband is silly enough to get into a
political
> argument with them, it's ugly). They are also pretty overtly racist,
esp.
> the parents. But I love them. so I understand sticking by people you
don't
> agree with.
>
> It's amazing to me (well, not really so much) that people come off so
much
> holier than thou about not disavowing someone you've cared for for 20
years.
> It's also amazing to me the number of people who say "He's only been a
> Christian for 20 years, what was he before that?" Must have been a
Muslim.
> I've been an agnostic (can't go as far as atheist) for 20 years, wonder
what
> I must have been before that? My families are both horrified when I
say
> that, but I know I'm a good person.
>
> Anyway, I guess all this rumination is a result of my growing
> "hope"lessness. I think the Democrats have managed to snatch defeat
from
> the jaws of victory again. I think all this arguing back and forth,
all
> this finger pointing at Obama's secret "hate-mongering," at Clinton's
11,000
> pages of "not much there," is handing a close victory to McCain (for all
his
> confusion about who's who in the middle east terror game).
>
> I'm hoping very much to be wrong.
>
> Peahen
peahen, i so relate to everything you said. i finally listened to the
full unity speech yesterday & i thought it was quite good. but i fear
that you are right - most people won't hear the whole thing. as you
know, i live in the most racially divided area in the country. i
can't say that the way detroit's mayor has handled his abuses &
failings has helped the racial debate at all. tensions here are
incredible. but maybe this can push the country into a better
dialogue about it. very hard with all else in shambles around us.
i think it is a compassionate & nuanced stance to recognize the
inherent contradictions that we all contain. frankly, i was surprised
to hear any politician touch on something like that. i appreciate
your articulate thoughts in that area.
funny that you talk about religion & family - just got back from a
visit to the in-laws, where i am the elephant in the room (well, you
know what i mean). they are conservative lutherans & republicans. i
keep my mouth shut entirely & because they are uncomfortable with
unpleasant things, no one ever asks directly about religion, etc (my
dh & i married without telling anyone...) i have no idea what they
think about me in those areas - probably pray for my soul. but i am
nice...
i also share your concern about the democrats disintegrating - it
certainly feels like that is where this is heading. & i hope to be
wrong, as well.
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