On Dec 11, 10:33 pm, "sharon" <nob...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> snip
>
> >> There was roughly a week of unseen time (between the trip to Iowa and
> >> the funeral), during which we didn't see ANYTHING. We didn't know
for
> >> sure that she 'helped' but neither do we know for sure that she
> >> didn't. Nothing was ever said either way.
>
> The rule on this newsgroup and most other discussion sites used to be:
if
> we didn't see it, it didn't happen. There was no indication whatsoever
that
> Carter felt Abby had been at all helpful in coping with the death. From
the
> way the relation****p imploded shortly thereafter and from Abby's general
> lack of concern about Gamma's death in favor of her obsession with Eric
from
> the start, I'd say it's highly unlikely that Carter felt very sup****ted
by
> Abby during the 3 days or so between the death and the funeral.
You can't have it both ways. "If we didn't see it, it didn't happen"
has to mean that we can't know EITHER way. So you can't 'know' that
Abby wasn't available/sup****tive any more than I can 'know' that she
was.
There was
> no indication that Gamma's funeral was delayed for a week after her
death,
> which would be an unusually long interval, not that it matters.
I didn't remember the exact timeframe. Once I rewatched, they said
3-4 days. (Jack told the lawyer he'd flown in '3 days ago.')
..
>
> > So, I rewatched "Things Change" last night. And, not surprsingly, your
> > memories of it/take on it bear precious little resemblence to what
> > happened on screen.
>
> Lordy, you are a glutton for punishment! I haven't seen it since it
aired,
> don't have it on tape.
I would say then that you have an amazing memory for an episode you
saw once ... almost 5 years ago. Except of course that your memories
are not that accurate.
> OK, so my first point, that Abby and Carter were looking for one
another,
> and didn't bump into each other randomly was correct. I was also correct
in
> my recollection that there was some initial confusion as to what the
other
> was referring to initially. I didn't see Abby's look as so much
shocked
> and distressed on Carter's behalf as she was that Gamma had kicked it at
a
> rather inconvenient time for her.
So you can read her mind? "Distressed look" on her face was pretty
obvious. Exactly what she was distressed about would indeed have to
left to the viewer, since there is no dialogue, beyond Abby's "I'm so
sorry. Nobody told me." (Which, upon a second 're-view' was said IN
the trauma room, immediately after hearing the news. Not out in the
hall.)
>
> > She then listens quietly and rubs his back while Carter talks a bit
> > about Gamma, and she offers some comforting words. She then assures
> > him that she will be back tonight -- the flight's just an hour.
>
> Which he knew was utter bull****, as did she. For the record, Little
Miss
> 'I'll be back tonight' checked into a motel in Iowa with Eric, even
bringing
> some of Carter's clothes for him to wear despite telling Carter they'd
be
> back before morning. If Abby was so darned sure she was coming back
> immediately, why did she go home and pack a bag?
Oh.... maybe she figured that, since Eric was stranded somewhere in
Iowa, that he was probably homeless. And she'd had enough experience
with homeless, mentally ill people (through her job) to suspect that
he probably hadn't bathed/changed his clothes in a while. So, to spare
the other people who would be stuck on a plane with him for a while,
she took a moment to toss a clean change of clothes into her bag? (We
saw no evidence that she had packed any clothes for herself.)
She was clearly lying so
> Carter wouldn't question her decision, she never planned to come back
that
> night,. Also, the 'back rub' (which I recalled as rubbing his arm/hand
for a
> moment) lasted no more than a few seconds, while she spent the majority
of
> the scene with her hand outstretched, impatiently awaiting the
prescriptions
> that he shouldn't have been writing in the first place.
Again. You remember incorrectly. Her hand was NEVER
'outstretched.' (Unless you are referring to the moments when she is
removing her gloves and throwing them in the trash.) She rubs his
upper arm/shoulder/back the whole time he is talking about Gamma. Then
her hands are either at her sides, in her pockets, or out of shot.
(Due to the wide screen format they are sometimes cut off, but unless
she has rubber hoses for forearms, they could not possibly be
'outstretched'.) She doesn't reach for the prescription until AFTER
Carter writes it, tears it off the pad, and hands it to her.
>
>
>
> > And Carter says "Do you have to go? My Dad's flying in ... You
> > haven't seen your brother in months, why do you have to go now?" Abby
> > explains that he's off his meds, she can't reach Maggie, and if she
> > doesn't go now, he may disappear again.
>
> Which, of course, since it was literally hours from the time she had
last
> spoken to him until she could get there, in real life, he'd most likely
have
> been long gone anyway. I speak from personal experience. Abby's 'plan'
made
> no sense as usual, she was taking a late flight to Iowa (it was already
dark
> when she left),
Again, incorrect. It was dark when she arrived at the diner. We never
saw her leave, so we don't know exactly what time it was, but since
Carter had been talking to Jack on the phone about 'are you sure you
can make the 5:30 flight .... and Jack is in Boston, so it's well
before 4:30 in Chicago at that point ... it's probable that Abby left
in the late afternoon and planned to get the last flight back to
Chicago. (And the issues with the plan have much less to do with Abby,
or this particular scenario, than with the way things work in the
ERverse. In that reality, not only are beds always available in
treatment programs at a moment's notice, but post 9/11 rules for air
travelers do not apply. (No mandatory 2 hour check-in.) And flights
come and go from Chicago at hours much later than IRL. (A few
episodes later, Carter catches a 'midnight' flight to Paris, (not even
leaving County until after 9 p.m.) and still later, Gillian leaves
Luka's at 10 p.m. to catch a plane to Montreal.)
assuming that her mentally ill brother had stayed at a diner
> for hours and hours (and that the management let him) waiting for her to
> show up
And the dialogue did indeed sup****t this. Eric says, "I wasn't sure
you would come." and Abby says "I wasn't sure you would still be
here." (It's also very possible [though again, we didn't see it, so it
didn't happen...] that Abby had called Eric back to finish their phone
conversation that was interrupted when James grabbed her, to assure
him that she would make every effort to get there. And even if she
didn't call back, the dialogue does indicate that Eric had asked her
to come for him.
and then figured they'd catch a nonexistent middle of the night
> flight back from Iowa. That Eric was still there and was actually
willing
> to return with her without much fuss was a miracle in modern times, I
guess
> she really is St. Abby.
No evidence that it was 'the middle of the night.' More like late
evening. Neither Eric nor Abby looks particularly exhausted, and when
Abby calls Carter to tell him they missed the flight, she says she'll
call him again 'later.' (Not 'in the morning' or 'tomorrow', but
'later.' Surely she doesn't plan to call him back at 2 or 3 a.m.)
(And while we don't see it on the screen, the script side mentions
'take out containers on the bedside table.' Chinese restauratns
usually aren't open in the middle of the night.)
>
> There is also the FACT that Abby had flatly refused to look for Eric at
all
> until that moment, completely shooting down Maggie's plan to hire a
> detective. I can see how Carter would wonder what the he** the
emergency
> was when she couldn't be bothered to even attempt to look for him until
that
> very moment.
NOW she knows where he is. It's not a question of searching for a
person who could be ANYWHERE in the world. She has a phone number and
an address, and he had asked her to come. THAT"S the emergency.
> Because, as usual, when it comes to her family, Abby is irrational.
And
> maybe, considering how incredibly sup****tive he had been of her and her
> family on many, many occasions; he was expecting a little more from her
than
> he got in his time of need.
Strangly enough, in the episode JUST before this one, Carter had
proposed, and indicated that he's more than willing to take on her
crazy family, if it will let him have her as well.
>
> Abby> follows, reiterating that she WILL be back tonight.
>
> And then she WASN'T.
She was supposed to charter a plane? (She could have rented a car,
but given the distance, she wouldn't have gotten back more than a
couple of hours sooner.)
>
> > Then, the next episode, there is no indication that Abby hasn't been
> > around.
>
> Nor is there any indication that she has. We know Carter hired a limo
to
> bring her to the service, so he, at least, was in contact with her. No
> indication that she did anything for him.
And no indication that she DIDN'T. (Remember what you said above -- if
we didn't see it, it didn't happen.)
>
> How about staying away from the funeral?
And then you would have chewed her out for not showing up at the
funeral!
Locking up the bar in the limo?
> Giving the limo driver $20 and asking him to drive her brother around
for an
> hour rather than sit there parked? As I recall, she took Eric to the ER
for
> admission right after the funeral, she couldn't have done that on the
way?
> You don't think one of the ER docs would've gotten a psych hold on Eric
for
> her? No common sense, alas.
She was already late. There is no indication that the hospital was
en-route to the cemetery. She made what seemed to her to be the best
choice at that moment. Both IRL and on dramatic TV, people sometimes
make choices that seem 'best' at the time, but go horribly wrong.
>
> at she expected him to go to Iowa with her. NO> suggestion that since
Jack was coming, Carter didn't need to stick
> > around (or she didn't need to come back.) NO, hint from Abby that
> > "Gamma would still be dead tomorrow."
>
> I never said Abby said it, I said Carter said it in response to what he
(and
> I) viewed as her lack of concern about it.
Sorry. I misread your original post.
I still think the convo between
> them indicated that Abby expected he would go to Iowa with her, but
concede
> she didn't actually say it.
If she expected him to go ,why did she ask him to write the scrip in
advance? (THe only possible expectation might have been that when
Carter asks if she can leave right away, and she says "I'm ready now",
maybe she assumed that his readiness to leave himself meant that he
planned to go with her. Once she realized that they were dealing with
two totally different crises, it was VERY clear that she planned to go
alone, and come home as soon as possible.)
>
> Carter was entitled to feel what he was feeling at that moment.
And so was Abby.
(BTW, there was a scene in the teaser of the original script , set
in the treatment center, the morning of the funeral. Where we see that
the director is already ready to throw Eric out for not following the
rules. So... given that it's been only 3 days, it's pretty obvious
that they were able to find a treatment center and get Eric admitted
VERY quickly, leaving Abby ample time to help/sup****t Carter. Even
without that scene, the 3 day time frame [and Eric's statement that
he'd been cheeking his meds because he didn't feel well on the full
dose] means that they would have found him something very, very
quickly. Or else it's the typical ERverse issue of two separate
timelines for two separate stories.)
Naomi
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