"Dorcie" wrote:
> This is completely off-topic, but I had to come here and thank every
> one of you that is still around after all these years. I've always
> known that alt.tv.frasier was a special group. We used to always talk
> about how civilized it was (still is) here compared to everywhere else
> on the internet.
>
> But....tonight it was really brought home.
<snip>
> I also apologize for this incredibly off-topic rant, but I just had to
> share why I thought this group is so wonderful. It is such a rare
> treat to be able to converse with a group of people that are mature,
> civilized, witty and, above all else, polite.
First, hi Dorcie, nice to see you again! Second, sorry you had such a
negative experience on that forum. This kind of thing is endemic to the
internet, IMO. I've *never* seen an internet forum where the kind of thing
you're talking about doesn't happen. Third, I think your memory of ATF has
softened and romanticized since you were among the every-day, or
almost-every-day contributors. I *do* remember arguments like this coming
up
here. I think generally things could be civil here, but they were prone to
blowing up into seriously nasty attacks on people that could get quite
personal. I admit I was one who incited, escalated or attracted these
hostilities a lot of the time. I'm not proud of this, and I do regret it.
But many contributors strayed into those waters, too. Also, I remember a
particularly irritating thing; there was a handful of people who ended up
forming a kind of block to dominate the NG, shape every discussion, and
band
together to sup****t each other in agreement, as well as to attack all
dissenting opinions, or posters they had a grudge against on general
grounds. Sometimes, too, they seemed determined to drive out newcomers, no
matter the opinion or topic they expressed.
I do recall the direction this trend took was to do just the kind of thing
you're talking about here. The last couple of seasons, this "block" seemed
to decide that "Frasier", and especially David Hyde Pierce, were beyond
fault, declared every episode superlative, went on the warpath at anyone
who
expressed even the mildest criticism of an episode or season, or any
comment
resembling in their opinion that DHP was less than a god. The same thing
applied for every Niles and Daphne plot.
My theory on a major reason this occurred is that we were aware writers
from
the show were following discussions here, either occasionally or
continuously, and this particular block was so in awe of this, they formed
the unofficial "policy" that nothing was to be criticized. I think this
was
either to kiss up to the crew lurking, occasionally posting here, or to
"spare their feelings", or possibly a bit of both.
This saddened me a lot. IMO, it was imperative to the spirit of a public
forum, and freedom of expression, for participants to contribute totally
honest opinions, unbiased by the influence of surveillence by those
affiliated with the show, and that people felt safe to do so. I thought it
was as cool as anyone else that we were occasionally treated to input from
members of the Grub St. crew, and I certainly didn't want to offend any of
them. But professionals in this business have to be ready to take
criticism
and handle it like an adult, and also shouldn't lurk in a place like this
if
they're easily stung by criticism.
I remember feeling especially irritated by one comment to me that ATF is a
"fan site", implicitly reserved for "fans" only--which means "no
criticism,
only unconditional sup****t" of the show, and everyone connected to it.
This
particular person also opined that "all" NGs for TV shows are fan sites,
by
definition, therefore are predominantly positive only. I found this almost
infuriating, in part for being outrageously false, as well as being
contrary
to the concept of public forum.
My experience w/ my almost 10 years of usenet (as well as web-based
message
boards, in fact) is that the very thing you describe is a standard feature
of its forai. One thing that's very common is a poster getting angry if
someone disagrees w/ him or her, even over something comparatively minor.
Some people seem to take disagreement as criticism of them personally, or
an
inference that the person's opinion is not respected. I do remember here
once I shared that "Cheers" was being rerun on one of the stations in my
area, from Ep. 1, and that I was going to watch it, as I had not seen most
of it when it was in orignial run, becaise so many fans of Frasier were
also
huge fans of "Cheers". I did start watching it and found I really couldn't
get into it. I don't know why, but it just didn't click for me. Well, I
mentioned this a few times that I still wasn't liking it that much after a
couple of weeks of viewing, and someone came out of lurkdom to blast me,
saying she was sick of me repeating this and to stop watching if I didn't
like it, and to STFU. I wasn't hurt at all--I was kind of amused. She
certainly felt strongly about this! I realized, though, I was being
repetitive, and it probably is annoying if someone is a truly committed
fan
of something, and someone comes along to say only how much she doesn't
like
it, three or four times, or more. I posted that I saw her point and would
heed her request to STFU about it. And I did.
I'm not implying that's what you did in your recent situation. I offer it
only as a reminder of how very sensitive people here could be, sometimes
over the most surprising triggers--comments I never would imagine as
offensive to anyone.
Sorry this is so long--y'all know me <g>--and so late to the discusion.
Your
post did recall some interesting memories for me. Anyway, I hope you're
doing well, Dorcie, and I hope sharing this story here helped you some to
get rid of it. These things seem silly and trivial to most people hearing
about them, but when you're part of a community like this, this kind of
pig-headedness and overinvestment in personal opinion, can be truly
distressing in the moment. Just to air it somewhere can make a person feel
a
lot better.
Don't be run off your forum, Dorcie.
Nat
(add sbc before global to email)
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