On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:21:54 GMT, The_Fist <johngons@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>Apparently as the ONLY consertavie voice in this ng I must take up
>this mantle....
>
>>>Have you ever sat back and wondered WHY your mob keeps getting blown
>>>up and killed?!
>>
>>I am sure that they know that answer. They just never expected to pay
>>for their sins until WTC 9/11 came along. Now they are kind of peed
>>about it.
>
>What sins exactly? Arming Israel? Israel, the only democracy in the
>region,
You believe that democracy alone makes them good? Hell even Hitler was
elected through a democratic system in Germany to begin with.
Those same Israeli leaders were the same people blowing up passenger
jets in previous years. You liked to reward terrorists then right?
Certainly Israel has both good and bad points, but the whole situation
was a ****y one ever since the UN put Israel there. The locals would
of course be upset, where the US well armed Israel to blow this
problem away.
>was about to be eradicated by about a dozen or so totalitarian
>governments. Were we supposed to stand by and let that happen? Were
>we supposed to let an ALLY be destroyed?
Israel is welcome to defend itself, but invasion and occupation is an
entirely different matter.
>And since you're saying 9/11 was "payment" are you saying that 3000
>Americans DESERVED to die?
I certainly do not approve of attacks on civilians. However, I can
also understand that the US has been making enemies in the region due
to it's nearly constant pro-Israel view.
>Hell, you want to throw around Israel's rise as the reason wy the
>radical Muslims want America destroyed.
It is the focal point of their actions.
>If you look deeper you could
>argue that radical Islam's hatred of the West goes all the way back to
>the CRUSADES. (Or was that more American propoganda?) I say that
>Italy is to blame for all this if you're looking for the first event
>that triggered it all, specifically the Catholic Church in Rome.
Certainly religious and cultural conflict has been keeping the
situation heated, but it is exactly these serious problems that set
them off.
>Hell if you want to go into history a little further than Israel,
>America was founded because of Britain's oppression. So you could
>make the case, since we're playing the historical blame game, that
>everything we do wrong in the world can be partially blamed on the UK.
It also comes back to Hitler. As had he not tried genocide, then there
would be no Israel now. So even half a century after his death, then
Hitler is the root cause behind WTC 9/11. :-]
>If America's propping us Israel makes us directly responsible for
>their actions, then Britain's actions which CREATED America makes our
>destinies intertwined Cardman! :-)
True enough. :-]
Still, during those days all our problem citizens were relocated to
the likes of Australia and North America. So you could say that maybe
it is a genetic thing. Want us to come and cure you? ;-]
>>I am quite sure that the amount of people who died from US weapons
>>during the entire Cold War even makes the numbers of Jewish people
>>killed by the Nazis look small.
>
>More comparisons to Nazis... I think you read The Guardian too much.
Well as they say it is not a real debate until Hitler and the Nazis
get mentioned. :-]
And hey you know your British papers. :-]
>BTW thank them for encouraging the assassination of George Bush the
>week before our election for me, will ya!
Eh?
>>The Middle East is a good production ground for terrorists because the
>>US made it that way. As when you arm one side so strongly, then the
>>other side has little choice except to sink to terrorist like actions.
>
>So America CREATED the terrorists? Gee since we're blaming America
>for everything now...
All action and reaction.
>how about AIDS and genocide in Africa?
The British created a few problems there, but it would be hard to
blame AIDS on anyone.
>How about Europe's economy sucking ass? We do that too?
It is not that bad. Excluding a few Eastern European countries of
course.
>My point is that if America is indeed an imperialist state that's
>hated globally that "had it coming" in terms of the attacks against
>us... why are we the FIRST country EVERYONE on Earth goes to when they
>need REAL help?
Money, technology and a sucker for a sob story? :-]
>These European countries, and the especially the UN, repeatedly stab
>us verbally in the back and rip us to appeal to their wildly left-wing
>bases but when they need money or our military... they're REALLY quick
>to smile and shake hands. Two-faced bastards!
Fair enough.
>>You just have to wonder if the US knows what it is doing wrong? You
>>can also ask if they really care? After all they have been trying to
>>reshape this planet into a democratic capitalist consumer system for a
>>long time.
>
>And the EU's socialist entitlement and terrorist appeasement system
>is such a great alternative?
All I know is that if you were doing such a perfect job, then those on
the streets in Palestine would not have been rejoicing as the 3000
people in the WTC got killed.
Obviously they have reasons to not like you. No doubt due to the "made
in the USA" weapons killing their families.
>This has been fun. This what makes our countries great. We can
>disagree and DISCUSS this.
True enough. :-]
Well this fuzzy democratic system is a nice one in this respect, but
countries need to find this through guidance and not by force.
Still, I also once had a long discussion with my only customer in Iran
concerning his religious based dictator****p. I guess that his views
were not too politically compatible, but it does to show that people
will still discuss things no matter who rules them.
>However if the terrorists win.. we'd both
>be killed for the statements we're making now.
And I have no issues with you hunting down such terrorists. When quite
rightly Osama Bin Laden has set himself up for the most bloody death
that the US troops can manage.
I would recommend the same system how we dealt with Guy Fawkes in this
country. When this guy was first hanged, then he was drawn and
quartered, then he was burned at the stake.
Sounds like the US would then have all the ingredients needed to turn
his future death into a public US celebration. Just like the UK does
on Nov 5 each year. :-]
>We'd like to stop that from happening by spreading freedom.
The end does not justify the means.
Also you have a funny way of saying it. Like... Buy a jar of "Freedom"
today, when it spreads real well in a sandwich. ;-]
>It's unfortunate you don't see it this way but you're FREE to disagree.
I would fully welcome Iraq becoming democratic, but I also know that
you are trying to force this on them. Just maybe you will actually
succeed given enough time and bloodshed.
It is my belief that Iraq is not ready for democracy. So maybe it
would have been better to work with the locals on something more
primitive, where you can then work upwards towards democracy?
Also unlike what you believe, then you are certainly not free. You can
try walking down your street ****d, or to (unwisely) try banned drugs
to find that out.
So have you ever thought that Iraq does not want your democratic
version of freedom?
What is im****tant is to get the people of Iraq to decide their own
future. The US's strong sup****t for whatever they decide is seemingly
the best option to turn this hostile country into a more friendly one.
>We're trying to help those that aren't free right now.
They are free enough. That is why my customer in Iran expressed his
disapproval concerning the Iranian leader****p blocking packages from
Western countries from arriving.
Give them food, water, shelter, education, medical facilities and a
safe environment, then who then collects their taxes is then neither
here nor there.
They are all bastards after all.
Cardman
http://www.cardman.com
http://www.cardman.co.uk
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