In article <4828FD76.638D@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>, fkellis@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
says...
> Hunter wrote:
> >=20
> > In article <4827156A.40CE@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>, fkellis@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
says...
> > > Hunter wrote:
> > > >
> > > > In article <4825BD94.2DA@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>, fkellis@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
says...
> > > > > yngver@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On May 9, 11:47 pm, Fred Ellis <fkel...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> > > > > > > yng...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On May 9, 11:38 am, ri...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> > > > > > > > > So the doctors body washed a shore b/f he was killed on
t=
he ****p, so the
> > > > > > > > > island is in the future in that regard. (What if the
doct=
or knew? Could he
> > > > > > > > > have changed history?)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > He did know, because one of the crew told him about the
Mor=
se code
> > > > > > > > message. Nevertheless, that's the kind of thing you would
j=
ust shrug
> > > > > > > > off and say, well, they're nuts because I'm fine.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Using that same logic when the copter flew overhead and
d=
ropped the package
> > > > > > > > > with the phone could that have occurred b/f the copter
ev=
en took off the
> > > > > > > > > freighter in freighter time?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So the Losties would be a head of the coming bad guys?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I'm confusing myself now!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I think keeping the helicopter on the proper heading
avoids=
the time
> > > > > > > > distortion. Sayid did remark on the time difference when
Fr=
ank first
> > > > > > > > brought them to the freighter, but they had veered off
cour=
se--which
> > > > > > > > is why Desmond became unstuck in time.
> > > > > > > > -yngver
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > No, they didn't veered of course. Sayid wanted Frank to
chan=
ge course
> > > > > > > because of the storm clouds, but Frank told him he had to
sta=
y on course
> > > > > > > if they were to reach the freighter.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Fred Ellis
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > It was my understanding in that episode ("The Constant" that
du=
e to
> > > > > > turbulence from the storm Frank was unable to hold the
bearing,=
and
> > > > > > that's basically how Lostpedia describes the incident.
> > > > > > -yngver
> > > > >
> > > > > Unless that information from Lostpeida was written by one of the
> > > > > producers or writers of the show it's not canon. The
information=
from
> > > > > that site comes from some fan like us that has written what they
=
think
> > > > > as to what happen in that scene.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Fred Ellis
> > > > -----
> > > > None the less it is highly accurate. If you have any doubts just
ta=
ke any piece of
> > > > data and then compare it to the show. They cite the episodes it
hap=
pend in as well.
> > > > They even have the transcrips of all the episodes. If anything it
i=
s the canon of the
> > > > show, because it only describes what is on the show itself,
podcast=
and official
> > > > statements of the producers and writers. I find it highly
reliable.=
If there is
> > > > anything wrong with any of the data it is soon corrected. Let's
tak=
e Frank Lapidus's
> > > > course. Here is Lostpedia's synopsis for "The Constant":
> > > >
> > > > (Snipped Dialogue)
> > > >
> > > > How much you want to bet it matches what we saw? Just double check
=
it with the video.
> > > >
> > > > Lost pedia is the effort of hundreds of fans checking on each
other=
making each other
> > > > back up what they say with episode cites. You edit something there
=
better be prepared
> > > > to back it up. I am sure it is not perfect, but what is?
> > > > --
> > > > ----->Hunter
> > > >
> > >
> > > I have evey episode of 'Lost' recorded on DVD. I rewatched that
> > > helicopter scene and there is no indication what so ever that the
> > > helicopter went off course. Even tho it shows Frank struggling to
> > > maintain control of the aircraft the last camera shot of the
instrume=
nt
> > > panel shows the compass with a heading of 305.
> > >
> > > Later after the helicopter lands on the freighter, Keamy wants to
kno=
w
> > > happen to Desmond. Frank tells Keamy that as long as if he stayed
on
> > > the vector that Faraday gave him everything would be OK. This
implie=
s
> > > that Frank did stay on course to get to the ****p. There's a scene
on
> > > the beach where Daniel tells Jack that some people just going to or
> > > coming from the island can become 'confused' or 'unstuck in time'.
> > >
> > > What cause Desmond to become 'confused' was the mere fact of him
flyi=
ng
> > > through that storm not the helicopter being off course, which it was
> > > not.
> > >
> > > I don't care what it says in Lostpedia as to how Desmond became
> > > 'confused' or 'unstuck in time', who ever wrote that information has
=
it
> > > all wrong.
> > >
> > >
> > > Fred Ellis
> > ----
> > No its not. I just reveiwed the prolouge of "The Constant" (S4XE5). In
=
it is the
> > scenes of Sayid, Desmond and Frank in the chopper. As Frank is flying
t=
here is a
> > first establi****ng shot of the helicopter's compass. It is close and
ti=
ght shot of
> > the compass needle. It is DEAD ON and steady on course 305. This is at
=
time index
> > 1:10. The time is relative to the beginning of the VERY FIRST shot of
t=
he episode of
> > Desmond staring at the photo of him and Penny.
> >=20
> > As they fly into the thunderheand and encounter turbulance there is a
s=
econd shot of
> > the compass at time index 1:27 but you can't read it since it is shown
=
side long and
> > at a distance. However there is a third shot at approximately time
inde=
x 1:34 in
> > which there is a tight, close, direct, frontal shot of the compass
need=
le head and it
> > shows the needle moving to a course of 310! At this point Frank grabs
t=
he joystick
> > with two hands. Directly after that is Desmond waking up in his
British=
Army barracks
> > in 1996. The compass needle cleary moved.
> >=20
> > You will have to use freeze frame and walk it to read the gauge
because=
the gauge is
> > depicted as shaking but you clearly cam see the needle moving showing
t=
he course of
> > the chopper change from 305 to course 310 as it enters the severe
turbu=
lance of the
> > thunder head.
> >=20
> > So Lostpedia saying that the chopper strayed off course matches what I
=
personally saw
> > of the helicopter's compass. I do fault the article for not having
scre=
enshots of the
> > of the compass to give a visual confirmation of the description of the
=
course change,
> > but it did happen as Lostpedia described.
> >=20
> > Can anyone post the relevant screencaps here please?
> > --
> > ----->Hunter
> >=20
>=20
> Hunter, I did as you suggested and again reviewed that last camera shot
> of the helicopters compass. I played it through advancing the video at
> 1/30 of a second starting at the beginning of shot . At the start the
> compass needle is on the 305 indicator. But as you advance the video
> the needle does move toward the right at the last several fractions of a
> second. At the end of the camera shot the needle does appear to be on
> the 310 indicator. But when viewed at normal speed with the camera
> shaking a person might not notice the needle has changed. Plus along
> with Frank telling Keame that he did maintain the correct course heading
> that Faraday gave him the average viewer would get the impression that
> the helicopter never did go off course.=20
----
Sorry, I respectfully disagree. First, that was a prop needle and would
not=
had moved=20
unless deliberately so. The camera was saking and not the prop. Therefore
t=
he needle=20
was moved deliberately by the producers/writers to show it was going off
co=
urse. If=20
you look at it at normal speed you can see the needle move, albeit it was
e=
asy to=20
miss I admit. However, it would not had moved unless on purpose by the
prop=
men.=20
They were shaking the camera, not the panel the compass was in so there
was=
no reason=20
for the needle to move by accident, only on purpose. Connect that with the
=
fact that=20
Frank grabbed the joystick with both hands and Desmond's army scene right
a=
fter that=20
it was ment to show that the Chooper did go off course. As for what Frank
s=
aid:
From "The Constant":
[The group has just landed on the Kahana]=20
DESMOND: Alright, who are you people?=20
OMAR: Whoa, buddy. Calm down.=20
DESMOND: What am I doing here? who are you people?=20
SAYID: My friend is disoriented!=20
DESMOND: I'm not your friend! I don't know you! I don't know you!=20
KEAMY: When did he start doing this?=20
FRANK: He was fine when we took off. When we hit some weather...Hey,
Farada=
y told me=20
as long as I stayed on the vector --=20
[KEAMY motions for him to stay quiet. He and OMAR step toward DESMOND, but
=
are=20
blocked by SAYID.]=20
http://lostpedia.com/wiki/The_Constant_transcript
Frank did say "...Hey, Faraday told me as long as I stayed on the
vector...=
" but he=20
is mistaken, he didn't. He believes so because he probably thinks he went
o=
ff course=20
by only 5 degrees and only a few seconds but it was enough to scramble
Desm=
ond's=20
brain. He didn't think it was *THAT* im****tant but it was. Faraday as a
sci=
entist is=20
just more percise than Frank the Airline/chopper pilot. Sure pilots are
per=
cise too,=20
but to them a five degree variation in course for only a few seconds isn't
=
that big a=20
deal. To faraday it was. It was a misunderstanding between "cultures"
"Scie=
nce geek"=20
and "pilot jock". To a science geek if you are off by an inch you got to
do=
the=20
experiment over again. That is what Frank didn't get.
>=20
> But there is one piece of dialogue that tends to contradict that theory
> that the helicopter being momentarily being off course caused Desmond to
> become =91confused=92 or =91unstuck=92. When Faraday is informed that
De=
smond
> is acting disorientated he wants to know if Desmond had been expose to
> excessive amount of electromagnetism. Also Faraday says the some people
> become =91confused=92 just by going to or coming from the island. He
> doesn=92t mention what would happen to someone if they used the wrong
> course heading.
---
That is because he is hiding things. That should be clear by now. He is
the=
worst=20
liar on the island, the exact utter opposite of Ben, but he is hiding
somet=
hing. He=20
lied about the Morris Code message didn't he? Yep. It took Barnard to show
=
him up. =20
Also, some people became confused because they didn't go on the proper
head=
ing, they=20
just took off in any direction any old way. That is why Faraday told Frank
=
and later=20
Captain told Sayid to stay on course no matter what. The others going to
is=
land=20
didn't. As for the madness. It depends on if they were exposed to EMR.
Desm=
ond didn't=20
go mad before when he tried to sail away because I believe, he hadn't been
=
subjected=20
to massive Electromagnetic Radiation yet. He was when the Swan station
impl=
oded. He=20
was at the epicenter of it. He had a massive exposure. he didn't before.
He=
re is what=20
Faraday has to say when they contacted the island:
JACK: Hold on, hold on, hold on. Alright, you're on speaker.=20
SAYID: On the helicopter, something happened to Desmond. He doesn't appear
=
to=20
recognize me or know where he is.=20
JACK: (to Dan) Side-effects?=20
DAN: Wait, your friend, Desmond? Has he recently been exposed to high
level=
s of=20
radiation or electromagnetism?=20
[JACK and JULIET have no idea.]=20
DAN: Okay, look. Uh, we don't know why, but going to and coming from the
is=
land, some=20
people can get a little...confused.=20
JULIET: So, what, is this amnesia?=20
DAN: No, this is not amnesia.=20
[DESMOND leans over the man, who is staring blankly into space.]=20
http://lostpedia.com/wiki/The_Constant_transcript
Faraday said "SOME" people, not all. Desmond was susseptible and Minkowski
=
was as=20
well and the guy who went with him on the tender I would like to know if
th=
ey were=20
subject to massive EM pulses like we know Desmond was.=20
>=20
> Between what Faraday said about the electromagnetism
> and simply leaving the island it appears that those two conditions
> combined would be the cause for Desmond to become =91confused=92 or
> =91unstuck=92. Regardless if the helicopter had momentarily deviated
fro=
m
> the correct course.
>=20
>=20
> Fred Ellis
-----
I totally disagree. If Faraday maintained a perfect 305 course Desmond
woul=
d had been=20
okay. That was the purpose of the whold sequence. Show the compass on the
p=
roper=20
heading; show the thunderhead coming to tell people they are in for a
rough=
ride.=20
Show the compass heading needle drifting; show Frank grasping the joystick
=
with both=20
hands to bring it back; then show Desmond's conscious time travel back to
1=
996. That=20
sequence was ment to show a cause and effect between going off course and
D=
esmond's=20
time disorientation. The thunderstorm was just a vehicle to make Frank go
o=
ff course=20
against his will. =20
--=20
----->Hunter
"No man in the wrong can stand up against=20
a fellow that's in the right and keeps on acomin'."
-----William J. McDonald
Captain, Texas Rangers from 1891 to 1907
|
