willbill wrote:
> JimC wrote:
>
>> I purchased an A35 a few months ago,
>
>
>
> me too
>
> current firmware is 2.0, is that what
> you have on the machine? it *does*
> make a difference. :)
>
>
>> and I'm considering trading it in on a BluRay (my dealer has a partial
>> exchange arrangement).
>
>
>
> imho, of the 3rd gen players the A35 is
> the one worth keeping (i've both an A3
> and an A35)
>
> you've already taken the loss on the A35;
> yet the A35 has current *and* future value
> (especially if you're really into lossless
> multichannel sound). also, the A35 doesn't
> down-convert DTS-HD into standard DTS (a.k.a.
> core-DTS), whereas both the A3 and A30 do
>
>
>> Since I haven't followed the BluRay models, I would appreciate
>> suggestions for BluRay players with the best audio options, hopefully
>> with the (eventual) capability of decoding, or at least bitstreaming,
>> all the lossless codecs.
>
>
>
> i can't really help you with Blu-Ray coz i don't
> own one and don't have any experience with any
> of them, other than that my reading about both
> the discs and the players (stand alone) is that
> it/they was/are (and still is) both more expensive
> and an unfinished product and somewhat more
> problematic (i.e. more bleeding edge)
>
> not to mention that there's still a good supply
> of HD-DVD discs that cost a fair amount less
> than the BD discs
>
>
>> The A35, for example, can output lossless audio through either HDMI or
>> through analog RCA outs. (I'm aware that there isn't much software
>> with high-rez audio now, but would prefer to be ready when it comes.)
>> I really don't think I would use the profile 2.0 features, so that
>> isn't of much interest. Also, I would prefer not to pay a premium
>> price (prefer under $500 to $600)in view of the rapidly changing
>> technology. I expect to get one of the HDMI 1.3 AVRs or pre/pros, so
>> perhaps the bistream option is all I need.
>
>
>
> fwiw, i currently have a Denon AVR-2307CI (1+ years old),
> with a current 3808CI on order
>
> both A3 and A35 work fine with the 2307CI, even though
> the 2307CI doesn't decode either Dolby TrueHD nor DTS-HD.
> both players have the ability to convert the lossless
> 5.1 sound into 5.1 PCM sound (in the player), and then
> send that converted sound out (via HDMI cable) to the AVR.
> the 2307 handles 5.1 PCM sound just fine (via HDMI cable only)
>
> of course, the 3808CI decodes both Dolby TrueHD
> and DTS-HD, so i'll have the option of letting
> either the player do the decode, or letting the
> 3808CI AVR do the decode. it will be interesting
> to compare if the 3808CI offers any noticeable sound
> improvement when the 3808CI does the decoding
>
> one key thing that i like about the 3808CI is that
> it is about 9 pounds heavier than the 2307CI
>
> of my current collection of HD-DVD movies (roughly 40),
> roughly 15 have TrueHD 5.1 (Presley's old Jailhouse Rock
> is in TrueHD 5.1 but the original is mono and the result,
> while fairly decent sounding, still sounds very mono),
> and not one of my real movies has 5.1 DTS-HD, although
> several of them have DTS (which i think is the same as
> "core DTS"). to my ear, for DTS 5.1, DD 5.1, and DD+ 5.1,
> the pecking order is (worst to "best"):
>
> DD 5.1, DD+ 5.1, DTS 5.1 (DTS 5.1 is noticeably better
> than DD 5.1, but only a bit better than DD+ 5.1)
>
> my additional 10 "music" discs:
>
> 4 are pop/rock: 2 with HD encoding of both
> stereo LPCM as well as 5.1 DTS-HD, 1 with
> 5.1 TrueHD, and one with only 5.1 DD
>
> imo, best sound/performance is Pat Metheny Group,
> The Way Up 5.1 DTS-HD
>
> 6 are classical (of which opera, ballet, and
> normal video of conductor/orchestra (especially
> of a famous conductor like Pierre Boulez)
> make the most sense to me; my two with still
> pictures are a visual disappointment, but maybe
> i'll change my mind with additional replays)
>
> anyhow, of the 6 classical:
>
> 1. duo singing (disc currently being
> replaced (no cost exchange)), fairly
> sure it has 5.1 HD sound but don't
> remember which one
>
> 2. Magic Flute opera, 5.1 TrueHD; sound
> has been distant and have only listened
> to about 1st 10 minutes due to continuing
> adjustment of sound system, as well as
> learning to use my recent A35 and A3 players
>
> 3. Swan Lake ballet, 5.0 DTS sound;
> very good sound
>
> 4. Uncommon Bach (synthesized electronic sound),
> 5.1 DTS-HD; sound not so good, likely due
> to the electronic synthesis process
>
> 5. Mahler Symphony2 (Boulez conducting),
> confusingly marked (not9 uncommon!), sound is
> in fact 5.1 TrueHD and is very very good,
> maybe a tie with #6
>
> 6. Vivaldi (4 Seasons, Concertos for Double
> Orchestra (still pix, ugh!)), 7.1 DTS-HD,
> sound is very very good, maybe a tie with #5
>
>
> out of curiousity, why do you think you need/want
> HDMI 1.3?
>
>
>>
>> I would appreciate advice on the following options:
>>
>> 1) Keep the A35 until the BluRay technology is more mature.
>> (The To****ba has great picture and sound, but I hesitate to invest
>> in a dying technology.)
>
>
>
> that "dying" technology is likely the
> best deal. do you really need to have
> Blu-Ray player and discs?
>
> now that i've got real experience, i know
> that it hasn't had that much to offer me,
> coz i've yet to find that many movies with
> great/compelling HD sound (i'm not talking
> about the wiz-bang surround sound found
> on modern thriller movies, i'm talking about
> 5.1 sound found on movies like Pride and
> Prejudice (2005), Under the Tuscan Sun,
> The Thomas Crown Affair (1999))
>
>
>>
>> 2) Get a PS3, keep the To****ba.
>> (Apparently the most future-proof unit at the moment?)
>>
>> 3) Get a PS3, trade in the To****ba, and enjoy the BluRay video for the
>> time being; plan on getting another unit in a year or so.
>>
>> 4) Wait for one of the new units scheduled for release in the next few
>> months, such as the Sony 350 or 550, or later, the Oppo BluRay.
>>
>> 5) Other options?
>
>
>
> use what you've got and get some
> meaningful real experience
>
> i'm finding that of 50 discs (so far),
> there's only been one HD-DVD disc that
> really makes me happy (a movie of all
> things) and one that is close to that
> (another movie), but i only have a modest
> 32" LCD TV, so for me it's mainly been
> about the sound
>
> the two movies are:
>
> Pride and Prejudice (2005, an amazing performance
> for the 20 year old female lead, which surprisingly
> got very mixed reviews); great dialog, great acting,
> great photography, memorable/great 5.1 TrueHD sound)
>
> Blade Runner (final cut w/5.1 TrueHD, 5 disc set)
>
>>
>> Please excuse my ignorance concerning the BluRay options. - I didn't
>> expect HD DVD to go down so suddently.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jim Cate
>
>
>
> i plan to wait before buying into BD or any
> other new HD format, hopefully a couple of years
> or more
>
> my 50 disc experience has opened my eyes
> (and ears), and hasn't cost that much. :)
>
> regular DVD looks like the far better deal
> for the next few years
>
> if you want great multichannel sound, and
> great upscaling of standard DVDs with great
> remote and player options, as well as speedy
> response by the player, buy an OPPO player
> and some SACD sound discs (see:
> www.oppodigital.com or www.amazon.com)
>
> bill
Thanks for taking the time to address these issues. My situation may be
slightly different, in that my dealer has indicated that they will take
the To****ba back in trade, at least partially, on a BluRay player. So,
perhaps I haven't "taken the loss" on HD DVD yet. The problem, as you
point out, is that BluRay doesn't seem to be as fully developed as the
A35, so if I trade for one of the BluRay players now, there's a good
chance that it may be outdated within a few months. As understood, the
S350 and S550, to be released later this year, will have DTS MA
capabilities. As indicated, if I'm going to invest in HD discs, I think
I would prefer to get them in the (BluRay) format that may be around for
a few years, even though few of them have lossless audio so far. (I
don't have a lot of HD DVDs yet.)
Regarding the Oppo for SACD, yes, it does seem like a good choice. - You
asked why I was interested in HDMI 1.3. - As you may know, the Oppo 980
and 983 output SACD in PCM format via HDMI 1.2 (or 1.3) (The 980 also
outputs SACD in DSD format), both of which can be processed internally
by several of the new AVRs and pre/pros without the usual D/A conversion
steps. (See Kal's article on the Integra and Oppo 980 combination in the
January Stereophile.) Without HDMI 1.2 or greater, this isn't possible
as far as I know.
Jim
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