phil-news-nospam@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> On Wed, 07 May 2008 18:05:16 -0500 Jer <gdunn@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> | phil-news-nospam@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> |> On Wed, 07 May 2008 15:04:06 -0500 Jer <gdunn@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> |>
> |> | The Sony line of LCD panels call it "Cinema mode" for their native
24fps
> |> | playback feature, and those that don't still have a 3:2 pulldown
feature.
> |>
> |> I understood Cinema mode to be a feature that corrected 3:2 pulldown
so
> |> that each frame was shown 5 times at 120 Hz.
> |
> | Again, not all Sony LCD displays have 120Hz frame rates, but for those
> | that do, yes (now that I'm reading this again), the 120Hz Motionflow
> | eliminates the need for 3:2 pulldown. For those displays without
> | Motionflow, 3:2 pulldown is still included.
>
> We didn't need 3:2 pulldown before. A DVD player with a p24 disc can
just
> feed p24 video to a display which can just display it at p24. Done!
>
> Motionflow might well improve on p24 by interpolating like frames and
> simulating what would be between them to give a smoother motion. That
can
> be good.
>
> But we didn't need 3:2 pulldown before. And we don't need 3:2 pulldown
> with displays that lack Motionflow.
>
>
> | From Sony.com for Bravia XBR series LCD displays (and the marketing
> | hype is Sony's, not mine)
> |
> | 24p True Cinema (24p Input Capability)
> |
> | Many movies are filmed at 24 frames per second (fps) and prime time TV
> | programs are recorded at 24p. Seizing on an op****tunity, some studios
> | are taking a purist approach and encoding high definition video
content
> | such as Blu-ray Disc in 24p. Sony wisely takes advantage of this by
> | including 24p output capability on our Blu-ray Disc players as well as
> | including 24p input capability select 2007 BRAVIA TVs. The benefit
> | images are smooth and natural looking. Once you experience 24p video
it
> | will be hard to view video without it.
>
> What do they mean by "select"? Did they mean "in select" (e.g. that
only
> _some_ Bravia TVs have p24 input capability)?
Select = XBR flavor of Bravia
>
> Yeah, I know ... Sony marketing hype.
>
> I want a DVD (not BR-DVD) player with p24 output.
>
>
> | Motionflow? 120 Hz with Full HD high frame rate capability
> |
> | Taking motion performance to the next level requires innovation and
> | expertise. Enter Sony's Motionflow? High Frame Rate technology.
> | Motionflow? detects the incoming video signal and applies the
> | appropriate processing for optimum motion reproduction. Taking full
> | advantage of film sourced 24fps encoded content available on DVD and
> | Blu-ray Disc, Motionflow? eliminates the need for 3:2 pulldown and
> | delivers smooth, judder free video, faithfully preserving the
integrity
> | of the original film. When 60fps content is detected, Motionflow?
> | doubles the amount of frames and uses real-time calculation to create
a
> | new level of natural motion reproduction. You'll experience movies
and
> | s****ts with a greater sense of realism than ever before.
>
> This is where their marketing people really stretch it to the snapping
> point. Motionflow does not eliminate the need for 3:2 pulldown because
> there is no need for 3:2 pulldown (other than to convert p24 to i60 or
> p60). As long as Motionflow properly detects that 3:2 pulldown was used
> in an i60 or p60 video source, and converts it appropriate, that's
great.
>
> But for genuine p24 sources, which Motionflow can still improve on in
> other ways, there was no need for 3:2 pulldown at all.
>
>
> |> |> | Further, it should also be noted that not all DVD players will
output
> |> |> | 24fps natively, but will use a feature to convert 24fps to
30fps, often
> |> |> | called "3:2 pulldown" for displays that only do 30fps - best
implemented
> |> |> | with a Faroudja engine (hint: Oppo), IMO, although there are
other
> |> |> | technologies also using the '3:2 pulldown' moniker.
> |> |>
> |> |> Which, of course, sucks. OTOH, some TVs re****t an ability to
detect and
> |> |> fix the 3:2 pulldown. They'd have to display at some multiple of
24fps to
> |> |> achieve that. Some do work at 120fps which could.
> |> |
> |> | The 3:2 pulldown has something to do with strategically inserting a
> |> | composite frame to achieve 30fps from 24fps source, and yes, some
do
> |> | this better than others. Since I have an extensive DVD library
here
> |> | which is used almost daily, I decided it best to have 24fps native
> |> | somewhere in the food chain.
> |>
> |> It's actually doing it on a field by field basis, for interlaced
output.
> |> If the source is progressive and they are outputting p24 as p30, then
> |> there is an inserted frame ever 4 frames to make 5 frames. That
would
> |> actually look worse.
> |
> | I have both an old 480i and 480p DVD players. I've tried both with
the
> | same source material and they both look virtually identical. I
believe
> | the Sony display auto-senses the i or p material (depending on which
> | player), and automagically does the 'right' thing for each, I can't
see
> | a difference all else being the same.
>
> Which 480p is that? 480p24? 480p30? 480p60?
One is an old JVC (480i), a bit newer is Panny (480p), both are old-ish
players, so I can't imagine they do 60p.
>
>
> |> The big question is, what is actually going over the wire between DVD
> |> player and TV when p24 content is playing. If there is composite
output
> |> then you might be able to check on that with an oscilloscope.
> |
> | I use HDMI for everything that accepts it, and component where it's
not.
>
> Generally wise.
>
> I see the Vizio 47 inch TV has 4 HDMI inputs. That can be helpful.
Holy cow, this one has three - one too many.
>
>
> |> | I did unscientifically test SD DVD's while locking the BD player
and TV
> |> | into 30fps mode, and the Faroudja engine in the AVR did well enough
I
> |> | honestly couldn't tell much difference. In the end though, I allow
the
> |> | BD player output disc native (24/30fps), pass-through the AVR with
the
> |> | Faroudja engine hobbled, and let the TV do what it does best, and
> |> | everybody is happy.
> |>
> |> Can you lock it into 24fps mode?
> |>
> |
> |
> | I don't think I can based on how I understand the menus - 24/30fps
auto
> | or 30fps only.
>
> I guess not. So then you need to be sure that your source material
really
> is p24 to be sure you are outputting real p24 content.
I believe all film material is 24p, no?
>
> I need to find me a p24 capable DVD player and some p24 DVDs (a test DVD
that
> tests all the formats would be nice).
>
--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'
|
